Am I the only one who hated Skies of Arcadia?

[Punky Skunk]

I can't tell you how many times I've had arguments about FMVs. The supporters are always espousing their beloved SNES FFs, and what they don't realize is the fact that they had similar cutscenes, just far less dynamic. That's the big difference. They take up the same amount of time, they're just flat. Simply put, Weapon wouldn't be as interesting or fearsome if the scene was depicted by a chibi sprite trudging across a two-tone body of water with "thwump, thwump" sound effects. Really, we've advanced beyond that.

Okay, now I really question if you've even played the game. You can attribute that to almost every RPG, most definately including FFVII. In fact, that's damn near what started the whole camera thing, though the village, talk, repeat has been around since the beginning of console RPGs.

Hm? Every RPG more so. That's what I was saying. Visiting places is unavoidable, but FF7 didn't make it forced or routine. I can actually recall the events that take place, and it isn't "village to village" like most RPGs. And it doesn't play out like most RPGs.

[Punky Skunk]

Originally posted by kbuchanan


No, I just described FF7. And I could say the same about you. If you think your love of FF7 gives you rpg credence, your very mistaken. You shouldn't try to insult me just cause I don't like a game that you somehow love. I've no doubt been playing rpgs since before you even knew they existed(as indicated by your unnatural love for FF7).

Wha? You just knocked FF7 for the core practice of nearly every RPG ever made. I like FF7 for being more than the average RPG. You don't like FF7, you don't like Skies of Arcadia, and you don't like the "village to village" routines, then where does that leave you? I would guess not liking RPGs at all, which you haven't proved a false assumption yet.

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by Rob
Simply put, Weapon wouldn't be as interesting or fearsome if the scene was depicted by a chibi sprite trudging across a two-tone body of water with "thwump, thwump" sound effects. Really, we've advanced beyond that.

You're right, and a chibi sprite doesn't have to be what respresents that, I never said that. That's even what I specifically said Atma Weapon, as he was a giant sprite that conveyed he was so much more powerful then all the other enemies. You knew what he was simply by looking at him, you didn't need to have the game shut off and it's counterpart movie version start up and go on for five minutes twirling in circles to know it was bad-ass, you simply looked at it.

And Valkryie Profile also destroys your logic. In huge amounts, I might add, especially concerning bosses, and in cutscenes.

Hm? Every RPG more so. That's what I was saying. Visiting places is unavoidable, but FF7 didn't make it forced or routine. I can actually recall the events that take place, and it isn't "village to village" like most RPGs. And it doesn't play out like most RPGs.

That's only because you remember it so fondly. It was the first RPG to really grab your attention again, and so it became "more" to you. It was routine, and it was extremely forced. It was painfully obvious every step of the way (except for the plane, which was simply the most annoying trek in the entire game trying to figure out the first time) where you were supposed to go, as they only offered one choice everywhere and if a choice was ever offered, they usually spent ten minutes discussing how such-and-such city was where they needed to go. And no other city offered anything until you needed to go there.

But that's the beauty of some RPGs. The illusion of freedom through a forced and direct path.

[Melf]

Originally posted by Rob
I can't tell you how many times I've had arguments about FMVs. The supporters are always espousing their beloved SNES FFs, and what they don't realize is the fact that they had similar cutscenes, just far less dynamic. That's the big difference. They take up the same amount of time, they're just flat. Simply put, Weapon wouldn't be as interesting or fearsome if the scene was depicted by a chibi sprite trudging across a two-tone body of water with "thwump, thwump" sound effects. Really, we've advanced beyond that.

I don't see how the SNES FF analogy is relevant, since we're discussing modern games (namely Skies). In the old days they were flat. However, today's in-game scenes do much more, like talk and change camera angles. They still retain the fluidity of the game. I find that more appealing than the game pausing to show CG characters which hardly resemble (if at all) the actual in-game character models. I just don't like the jump in style.

BTW: How could you distinguish between cut scenes and just talking to npcs on SNES? Weren't they essentially the same?

[Punky Skunk]

Originally posted by Melf

I just don't like the jump in style.

I can understand it, but I didn't feel the same way. It made it more realistic and cinematic. I'll admit, I love cinematic games. A lot don't.

BTW: How could you distinguish between cut scenes and just talking to npcs on SNES? Weren't they essentially the same?

What I meant by cutscenes in SNES RPGs is like when, in FF5, they would show cities getting sucked into black vortexes or the party spinning wildly around the globe in an airship. They used the world map graphics, but it was essentially what would later be replaced by FMVs.

That's only because you remember it so fondly. It was the first RPG to really grab your attention again, and so it became "more" to you.

No. No game gets slack for being "the first." You wouldn't find any of the first games I played on my list of favorites because they've all been outclasses by numerous games. FF7 hasn't.

I'm not even going to respond to the other bit because I disagree completely and there's no changing your mind (nor would I want to) or mine.

[Master of 7s]

FF7 will always be in my top ten list of favored RPGs. I loved this game in spite of its flaws. Skies of Arcadia on the other hand will always surpass it. What really impressed me about SOA was that there wasn't nary a trace of CG to be found and it still managed to tell a decent story.

That being said. Square hasn't done anything right since FF7.

[Adrian]

Copy and paste from my post on the other thread:

Skies is really not that good, Final Fantasy X is a much better game. Whilst I love the characters, the music and it had some nice plot twists, the game is dominated by random battles. These random battles are way too frequent, take ages to load up and just too damn easy. The magic system is a joke and fairly useless except increm and incremus as physical attacks do way more damage. The spirit level thing is a nice idea but again, it makes magic useless: why use up spirit points when you can use an inexpensive item with the same effect? Due to the constant random battles, you have a ridiculous amount of money to spend on riselem, sacrulen and sacrum crystals as well as all the best weapons. The game is also way too easy: once someone has increm, Aika has Lambda Burst (which totally destroys the weaker enemies in random battles) and Vyse has both Pirate's Wrath and Rain of Swords, the battles are completely sussed out. Ship battles are way too easy due to the complete kit item which is dirt cheap and readily available. It's a nice game (hey, I spent $100 on the limited edition boxset- kick ass art book) but the constant random battles, the easiness, dated graphics, absence of voices and absence of Square standard CG scenes mean that it aint so polished which is a shame cos the music, art style, plot and characters are so damn appealing.

And yes I have completed the game.

[Frogacuda]

Originally posted by Rob
I've played plenty of RPGs and it has the best gameplay of them all, because it actually tries and succeeds at doing more than tedious random battles (like involving you in the escape from Midgar, or the journey from Icicle Lodge on snowboard). The only RPG I've enjoyed as much on its gameplay alone has been Lufia II.

And I like the battle system more than your typical RPG battle system. I liked the materia system. I liked the tons and tons of fun sidequests. I liked the detail loaded into each city and each dungeon. I liked the fact that the whole world felt cohesive and fully realized. No other RPG has done that for me. For once, Zidane knows what he's talking about.

Tales of Eternia had more sidequests and minigames than FF7. They were alot more fun and better designed too. Not only that, but it actually had memorable and clever puzzles in it's dungeon design. And variety. And it had a skill based battle system that took actual strategy to win. Let's face it, you could teach a dead monkey to beat FF7. Your level and equeiptment are the only real factors to winning.

There were some distractions and minigames, but nothing approaching any actual meat to the gameplay. In all fairness this is true of alot of RPGs, but I hate those too. Tales of Eternia, Valkyrie Profile, etc break away from this, and those are what I would call gamer's RPGs, instead of just crappy movies with shallow random battles

[Punky Skunk]

Originally posted by Frogacuda
Tales of Eternia had more sidequests and minigames than FF7. They were alot more fun and better designed too.

You can treat it like a fact all you want, but if Tales of Destiny was any indication, I'd be quite bored to tears. The series seems stuck in 1995.

Not only that, but it actually had memorable and clever puzzles in it's dungeon design. And variety.

Wow, I can't wait to be bored by the "clever" and "memorable" puzzles. I don't like Tales games, sorry.

And it had a skill based battle system that took actual strategy to win. Let's face it, you could teach a dead monkey to beat FF7. Your level and equeiptment are the only real factors to winning.

Any RPG can be beaten if you level up and have the right equipment.

Tales of Eternia, Valkyrie Profile, etc break away from this, and those are what I would call gamer's RPGs, instead of just crappy movies with shallow random battles

That's what I'd call pretension, labeling the games you like "gamer's RPGs." Get over yourself.

[Ranji]

Originally posted by Rob
I liked the detail loaded into each city and each dungeon. I liked the fact that the whole world felt cohesive and fully realized. No other RPG has done that for me.

The world in which Final Fantasy VII is set in is anything but cohesive, it's more like a collage of disparite cliches thrown together: here's a futuristic metropolis, there's a medieval hamlet, here's a 20th century beach resort, there's a tribal village, here's a rocket, there's a chocobo, ect.

Skies of Arcadia is not entirely unified either, but it does capture the essense of an age of exploration and a rise in industry and technology of a period akin to our 18th-19th centuries.

I'm not saying video games need to be historically accurate at all, but FF VII seemed to consist of a lot of randomly collected elements.

But more importantly, the imagination of placing SoA in a world of the high skies instead of in the seven seas or of earning a reputation through making discoveries or of building a ship, crew, and base make this RPG stand out amongst most of the pack.

FF VII introduced us to a new generation of RPG's in terms of visuals and mass appeal, to be sure, but it's hardly the best of the genre's history. It's not even the best Final Fantasy.