403 errors?Originally Posted by dave is ok
can't wake up
Well, why is trading stock emphasized over other forms of earning income? Income is income. What if flipping Beanie Babies is more beneficial to society? We are discouraging it by having people throw their money at the stock market. And no, "write your Congressman" is not a good answer. My Congressman sucks all the dicks.
We're running in circles now. You still haven't explained exactly why it's a good idea. Your argument about double-taxation is complete bollocks.
Last edited by Diff-chan; 29 Aug 2012 at 01:52 PM.
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When you say middle class doesn't own stock, do you simply mean they don't engage in trading on their own?
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
The page is a dick and won't let me link the relevant graphs. It should be pretty obvious that the large majority of financial holdings are held by the very well-off.
That's a fair question. Going back to your example, an individual who flips stuff on ebay should ideally pay the same rate as someone who flips stocks, bonds, futures, etc. It is indeed all the same but is different from earning money from work, since that is newly earned money, as opposed to the proceeds of money already earned and taxed.
I'm not reading all that. Which graphs were you trying to post? The majority of them appear to be more relative % ones instead of how many people own stock in each income bracket. I want to see some information on what % of working and middle class people own at least one investment.
I'm not finding that number for you. I'm sure it's a decent number, but when you ignore their home and 401(k) I'm sure that number drops to almost nothing.
The relevant information from the charts I tried to post is just this. The bottom 90% of incomes own 19% of all stocks and mutual funds, 23% of all non-home real estate, and 2% of all financial securities as of 2007.
Last edited by dave is ok; 29 Aug 2012 at 02:00 PM.
can't wake up
Except that's not really true, and even if it were, it's impossible to separate it. In the example I cited, I am earning income from my computer, but I am also also earning it through labor as well. Likewise, when I go to a job, I am earning money for my employer, and charging a rate for that (my salary). But I also invested in my education, the car I use to get to work, my suit, etc. My company invested in the facility, my computer, my Windows license, the IT staff that helps me when I lose my password, etc.
You can see how this can get very complicated. That's why income is taxed. But the problem is that a very narrow range of the income-generating activities in this country is overwhelemingly favored by the tax code. It just so happens to be the one income-generating activity that is massively over-represented by the very rich.
The middle class owns a lot of stock, but most of it is in vehicles that don't earn capital gains, like 401(k)'s.
In terms of owning actual stock that can earn capital gains, yea, the middle class has very little. The vast majority of middle class wealth is tied up in their homes, which is why the past several years has been so bad for middle class wealth.
I wouldn't count the home, as that just cooks the books, but it would be interesting to see with and without 401(k).
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Ok that's what I thought.The middle class owns a lot of stock, but most of it is in vehicles that don't earn capital gains, like 401(k)'s.
In terms of owning actual stock that can earn capital gains, yea, the middle class has very little.
Don't a lot of people invest into their home? I always thought property was a big deal, why disregard that? Maybe because I know home owners in Denver, but investing into your home in Denver is a very strong move as renting is pretty much capped out here, and certain areas are growing a huge amount.
A friend who bought his house for about $170k, has dropped a couple hundred thousand into it, and the house is now worth about $500-$600k as similar houses on the block are selling for around that much instantly.
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