The Obama Presidency

[Yoshi]

lol @ "Drug rights" on that rating system.

[Drewbacca]

Because "freedom" is a loaded term.

I don't really backlog the term often. To me it's defined as the freedom to take a certain action. Some freedoms we know are inherently wrong, I think most people agree physical and mental abuse is a freedom we can do without. But removing the ability to attack someone for insulting you was a removal of an action. You can't do that without consequences happening to you. So that's how I specifically define freedom. Not an abstract flag waving symbol. It's tied to action (physical, mental, or whatever) and consequence.

Both scenarios you've outlined are unaccpetable—one just in a much less micro scale. I don't agree with either.

For me, and I realize this is not everyone, I don't fear death. I see something like Sandy Hook and I think it's horrible, but it's also a price payed for the freedoms we enjoy. People can own these things and most people don't do this. I equate it to the people who have died over the years to earn those freedoms—of course people will continue to die with them enacted too. One asshole couldn't cope with life and did that shouldn't be the way policy is set. For every one Adam we have millions and millions of people who aren't like that at all. The kicker to the whole debate is that the proposed limitation wouldn't have even stopped something like this from happening—so in the reality you want all decisions to be made in what is this for? All sizzle little steak.

I don't identify with libertarians aside from a few key issues between right and left. Like I said I support social programs because in almost all cases they enable actions for people. The ability to have a good education, the leverage to get a competitive wage with businesses, an avenue to get patched up when you're injured. All of these without being shackled by massive debt or other obligations typically imposed (action without consequence or action with consequences that don't outweight it).

[Diff-chan]

I see something like Sandy Hook and I think it's horrible, but it's also a price payed for the freedoms we enjoy. People can own these things and most people don't do this. I equate it to the people who have died over the years to earn those freedoms—of course people will continue to die with them enacted too. One asshole couldn't cope with life and did that shouldn't be the way policy is set.

Here is the problem I have with this statement. It's not the "price paid for the freedom we enjoy." It's the price paid for one specific "freedom" that some people enjoy, and the people who paid the price, in this instance, literally had no say in the matter. They were mostly just kids. That's fucked up.

As I said, no amendment is absolute, because we have many different goals and all goals must be balanced. The Constitution isn't a long document, but it consists of a lot more than just the 2nd amendment.

[Bojack]

I don't fear death. I see something like Sandy Hook and I think it's horrible, but it's also a price payed for the freedoms we enjoy.

How many times have you been near death? How willing would you be to get your face shot off or have your family capped to protect Jimbob's right to own? This is an incredibly high price for those who pay it (oft involuntarily) and is of incredibly limited benefit to society.

[Yoshi]

There were a lot of people named "Jimbob" on that map of New York that was released, you myopic bigot.

[Drewbacca]

Here is the problem I have with this statement. It's not the "price paid for the freedom we enjoy." It's the price paid for one specific "freedom" that some people enjoy, and the people who paid the price, in this instance, literally had no say in the matter. They were mostly just kids. That's fucked up.

No child has a say in much that happens before they are of age. And I think everyone here agrees this act was honorless and disgusting. It's dishonest to think having these freedoms won't have consequences from time to time. If we made drugs legal people would die from them. There's no question. It's just a matter of how we want to live. I want to be as free as possible and see government oppression as the easiest road to misery. The truth is there may just be no way to stop something from this happening EXCEPT a nanny or police state. In that case I'd say it's not worth the price. And a good place to start would not be to shove laws around that don't even affect the outcome you're looking for.

How many times have you been near death? How willing would you be to get your face shot off or have your family capped to protect Jimbob's right to own? This is an incredibly high price for those who pay it (oft involuntarily) and is of incredibly limited benefit to society.

Of course I would be. I don't fear death and accept that it's inevitable. We're all going to die sometime, hopefully old surrounded by grandchildren. Being able to live in a country like America (or Canada) is more than 90% of the world is given and I'm content with that. If I have to give it all up to preserve the openness I cherish so much then so be it. I fall on that sword. Do you think you and your family are worth more than that?

[Bojack]

There were a lot of people named "Jimbob" on that map of New York that was released, you myopic bigot.

Would you prefer Cleetus? Buddy Ray?

[kedawa]

How many times have you been near death? How willing would you be to get your face shot off or have your family capped to protect Jimbob's right to own? This is an incredibly high price for those who pay it (oft involuntarily) and is of incredibly limited benefit to society.

So I guess we should get rid of cars too.

[Yoshi]

Would you prefer Cleetus? Buddy Ray?

So you disrespect people based on their names but think losers in rehab deserve defense? Let's legalize only the most dangerous drugs and let that problem solve itself instead of taking rights away from people that have never done a damn thing illegal.

[Bojack]

So I guess we should get rid of cars too.

False analogy, cars are heavily regulated, a privilege and here's the important part INCREDIBLY BENEFICIAL to society. I have to do a comparative laundry list of things to legally drive. A case can be made that we under regulate cars in America as well as guns. Also to be noted, millions of people own a car and use it every or near every day. I bet if we scaled the usage of cars down to the usage of guns the per capita death toll would be similar or even less. Car deaths are also going down every year last I checked for a long time despite there being bajillions more on the roads.

I really wish people would quit using this analogy since no one chooses an F150 or an Impala to go mow down a class room.