The Obama Presidency

[Anthony]

My issue is that the statement was either completely dishonest or extremely naive, and I can't even decide which is worse considering the position of the source.

I understand we are getting rather loose with the term tax here. Is your implication that the money is being taken directly by the state, or that the increased premiums are functionally equivalent?

[Calliander]

My issue is that the statement was either completely dishonest or extremely naive, and I can't even decide which is worse considering the position of the source.

My guess is it was probably more of a, "I hope this ends up being true…" kind of deal. Is that naïveté? Does it fall under dishonesty? Beats me. But also, anyone who believed they'd be able to keep their private plan is nuts.

[Yoshi]

I understand we are getting rather loose with the term tax here. Is your implication that the money is being taken directly by the state, or that the increased premiums are functionally equivalent?

The latter.

[sleeve]

This is an argument that no one will ever win.

From here on out, Yoshi will attribute any increase in his premiums to the ACA. Yoshi's insurance carrier can blame any further increases on the ACA even if they are not related to the ACA.

Even though the issues that people (i.e. me) are having in the individual market do not apply to him, Yoshi will loudly assert that these issues negatively affect him in his group plan, his insurance company will write him letters confirming what he expects to hear, and Yoshi will not accept any other answer.

Perfect storm.

[Yoshi]

From here on out, Yoshi will attribute any increase in his premiums to the ACA.

Not true. Any single digit increase would have been in line with business as usual. When this year's increase quadrupled last year's, I don't know how anyone argues that it isn't at least mostly due to subsidizing Obamacare. I don't expect next year's rate to increase anywhere near as much and would question what my insurer was trying to get away with if it does, since the Obamacare hit shouldn't compound.

[sleeve]

Not true. Any single digit increase would have been in line with business as usual.

Yeah, sure. The problem is that you have no proof that this is true. If I ran an insurance company, I would raise rates on people and blame the ACA regardless of whether the ACA had any impact, knowing that people would blame ACA regardless of what happened.

When this year's increase quadrupled last year's, I don't know how anyone argues that it isn't at least mostly due to subsidizing Obamacare. I don't expect next year's rate to increase anywhere near as much and would question what my insurer was trying to get away with if it does, since the Obamacare hit shouldn't compound.

Why not take advantage of what the ACA is designed to do, namely: take advantage of the free market and use the exchange to find a new and cheaper policy?

[Yoshi]

Yeah, sure. The problem is that you have no proof that this is true. If I ran an insurance company, I would raise rates on people and blame the ACA regardless of whether the ACA had any impact, knowing that people would blame ACA regardless of what happened.

I completely understand your point, but when we know their costs are increasing, they have to raise rates. How much is due to the law and how much is taking advantage of the situation we'll never know.

Why not take advantage of what the ACA is designed to do, namely: take advantage of the free market and use the exchange to find a new and cheaper policy?

Just for you, I went out to the site and looked. They are all significantly more than what I am paying now, since I am in a group and don't qualify for any subsidy. No wonder no one is signing up.

[sleeve]

Well, then I guess you're fucked.

Seriously though, you're on a group plan. You're not the primary target of the ACA nor are you in the class of people supposedly affected negatively by the rollout. You're just a guy with a group plan who will continue to be on a group plan.

I don't know how good your existing plan is, or how good the coverage is or how high your deductibles are, but that's another important comparison point.

[Yoshi]

Yeah, I'm clearly not the intended demographic; I'm just collateral damage.

[bbobb]

This is why we should be using a public option. Health being a for profit industry allows carriers to raise the rates as they please and blame whatever the fuck they want.