The Obama Presidency

[Advocate]

but for two white men to sit there and tell me minorities would just have been integrated into the work force gradually when there's hundreds of years in US history to prove otherwise is a crock of shit and the dumbest thing I've ever read on TNL.

Just remember who didn't want want the Rights of blacks to vote.

Hint: If you thought Republicans ... you are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen...s_Constitution

The vote in the House was 144 to 44 with 35 members not voting. The House vote was almost entirely along party lines with no Democrats supporting the bill and only 3 Republicans voting against it.

[Vasteel]

Sounds like a peachy end result when applied to health care, wouldn't you say?

I would say you'd have much bigger problems at that point anyway. It's not like the rest of the infrastructure would remain intact or any money you had to spend would retain any value whatsoever.

Precisely. Not to mention the absurd drop in quality. Compare Duke Medical Center to Walter Reed Army Hospital. Which would you choose if you needed a major surgery? I know what Ted Kennedy chose...

And if you had the money, you'd still choose Duke. But if you didn't, you'd still have an option. Kind of like how nobody is forced to send their children to a public school when a private one is within their means. They would remain private. No one at Duke (whom I work for everyday) is concerned about it.

Your straw man does bring up a hitherto unstated point, however: unlike Duke, many of the hospitals in this country receive state funding now, off the tax dollars of those who cannot afford their services.

[Razor Ramon]

Do you realize how different each party is right now? Did you even take that into account? From the confidence of your post I bet you didn't.

EDIT: Aimed at Advocate

[Josh]

What does that have to do with anything?

[Yoshi]

Wages don't even match up with health care. How can I be fiscally responsible for my health when the company I've poured sweat and tears into won't give me a wage good enough to pay for it? Even with a higher skillset, the vast majority of the US cannot pay for their own health care out of pocket. I bet you can't, either.

I suspect your wording wasn't intentional, but I'm going to use it as an example anyway. Companies don't "give." Employees have to be competitive, just like the companies do. If your current company isn't paying you what you feel you are worth, you should go somewhere else or work toward moving into a different industry where wages/benefits align better with your needs.

Affirmative Action was a necessary step in a time when blacks were being hosed down for asking for equal treatment, segregation was the social norm, and minorities were not even allowed to have anything without the risk of it being snatched away from them by angry white men. You're blind to history if you think Affirmative Action wasn't needed during the 60s and 70s. Right now, I'll say financial diversity is more important that racial diversity is since now you're more fucked if you're poor than if you're black or brown, but for two white men to sit there and tell me minorities would just have been integrated into the work force gradually when there's hundreds of years in US history to prove otherwise is a crock of shit and the dumbest thing I've ever read on TNL.

The 1960s and 70s are way, way over. Affirmative action in 2010 is flat out racism. Equal opportunity is necessary, because there are still idiots too blind to see the damage that not hiring the best candidate regardless of background does. AA should be insulting to all minorities, as it says that after two or three generations, they still need to cheat to win. However, today's culture of entitlement has probably made people of any race not give a shit and just put their tin cup back out.

[bbobb]

Just remember who didn't want want the Rights of blacks to vote.

Hint: If you thought Republicans ... you are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen...s_Constitution

Really? You're going there? More than 100 years ago? Parties that in no way even remotely resemble the ones today?

Jesus fuck I can't figure out who's the bigger idiot, you are Squall. At least Yoshi has some logic (albeit twisted) in his stance. You just blindly hate the Democrats because WAAAAHHHH you didn't get unemployment... boo fucking hoo. While Squall sits around his apt in Korea arguing with straw men all day. Fucking hell.

[Yoshi]

Yoshi is white now? The wiki should be updated to reflect this.

I'm prismatic. Don't even try to label me.

[Bojack]

You're operating under the assumption that, (a) the government has enough money to pay these doctors, and (b) the government will always have the money to continue paying these doctors. I'm never going to argue that the system isn't broke--it's fucking terrible. But a government controlled, government mandated program at the federal level is unsustainable. We can't pay for the shit we already have. You're also putting the entire health care industry in the firm control of the same dipshits that brought us Cash for Clunkers. What could possibly go wrong?

Of course, this says nothing of the fact that the federal government has no power to mandate health care. Such a power would be relegated to states, or the people therein. I seem to recall reading that somewhere before...

The federal government cannot run out of money. They can simply create more money, this may cause problems with the overall economy but doctors will still get paid. Elsewise the system will revert back to what we have now over time. Either that or the amount of doctors we have will vanish as the career is disincentivized down to charity work only. Most fears of a socialized/universal system are unfounded.

We also don't have half the immigrant problem the right wingers would have you believe. Personally I'd rather have the industry in government control rather than the control of those who have fiscally conflicting interests concerning my treatment.

[Advocate]

Do you realize how different each party is right now? Did you even take that into account? From the confidence of your post I bet you didn't.

Yeah both suck right now. Both controlled by the lobbyists and special interests. One side is so corrupt that the masses elected a unqualified President. The other has fucked up their own image(RHINO) that the country doesn't even consider them an option. Even though, most probably agree with them half the time.

To Josh: The point was Repubs are known as the all white male club. I was pointing out that back in the day, it was actually the Democrats who withheld black voting rights. The issue is that most people seem to think it was the Republicans. They would be wrong with that assessment.

[Razor Ramon]

Jesus fuck I can't figure out who's the bigger idiot, you are Squall.

I hate to do this to you but...