The Obama Presidency

[Bojack]

Since I've taken forever to resume the conversation I was having with Drew...

If we were to raise a gas tax and make gas more expensive (just enough to make peeps uncomfortable paying, I don't advocate making it prohibitively expensive) would make it easier for alt. energy and transportation to be more lucrative. As it stands an atl. engergy provider would need to have either mass government subsidies to compete with the already subsidized and cheap as shit gas or some how trump in terms of output/cost. It's also possible/probable even that any source of sustainable power will always and permanently be more expensive than gas is today (even at scared Libya inflated rates) and the sooner we get every one used to the idea and on board the better.

To ease up on ol' Yosh,

I'll give you a question I asked a few pages back with a new spin on it.

Many states now have Republican governors and senates etc... what good news is coming out of them? State legislation needn't worry about Obama admin on a variety of issues. You have the floor.

[dave is ok]

Here's a good article for Yoshi and Cheeks:

Politicians in the United States are constantly in campaign mode. Between midterm and Presidential elections, politicians seldom have a moment when they're not fighting for their (or their party's) political life. That bedrock of constitutional democracy -- the election -- may be handicapping the United States.

"Not that democracy is a bad thing," economist Dambisa Moyo told PRI's The Takeaway. Many of the problems facing the country can be solved in a democratic framework. But the constant election cycle "means that governments do not have the opportunity to focus on structural, longer term problems like pensions, like infrastructure, like education," according to Moyo. "They're forced into myopia and to short-termism, and it's that that is actually causing this decline in economics."

In fact, Moyo argues that China may be better set up than the United States to tackle serious economic problems. The United States is more saddled with expensive and inefficient health care and pensions. And China has created more impressive economic growth lately. Yet when American politicians look at China, Moyo says they take the wrong lessons:

"The United States can be overly focused on what's going on in china as to the detriment of solving the problems that we've created here in the United States that has nothing to do with China."

Now the United States is going to have to make some tough decisions on where its priorities lie. Moyo asks, "is it more important for America to police the global sea lanes at the expense of lower education standards?"

The stakes are high for the United States and the rest of the world. "The rest of the world is absolutely relying on America getting it right to help solve the big problems that the world is going to be facing," according to Moyo, "not just poverty but issues around energy efficiency, issues around global infrastructure, peace, global economics."

"If you're not investing in education, if you're not investing in mathematics and in science," Moyo says, "American will simply not be competitive enough to help solve these problems." And if that's true, the entire world will suffer.

LETS BE MORE LIKE CHINA GUYZ, SRSLY

[Diff-chan]

Many states now have Republican governors and senates etc... what good news is coming out of them?

As someone who is living in a state governed by a right wing star (Chris Christie), I can tell you absolutely fucking nothing. The state's future prospects are just as mediocre as they were when he was sworn in. The unemployment rate is about the same as it was when he took office. He's consistently cut taxes for millionaires while railing against teachers. It hasn't helped a bit. In fact it's done harm, in that it is kind of disturbing to see what people are now saying about the folks educating their children, putting out their fires, policing their streets.

All he does is yell at constituents and post them on Youtube. The far right loves that shit but it is accomplishing nothing. Oh, and there's also the screw ups that have cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars. And afterwards he just blames some low level lackey. What happened to "the buck stops here"?

[Yoshi]

Many states now have Republican governors and senates etc... what good news is coming out of them? State legislation needn't worry about Obama admin on a variety of issues. You have the floor.

The federal government has been so power hungry that states can't do anything anymore, which might be the root of a lot of the problems. That wasn't supposed to be the way the country worked and for good reason.

That's not a blanket excuse that lets state governments off the hook. Hell, our previous governor here (and the current one's former boss) let a country club use as much water as it wanted to water its golf course during a drought and ration period in exchange for a $10 or 20k membership.

To be honest, I have no idea how many states have a governor and congress controlled by the same party. I suspect not many. And that may be why you see the same gridlock there you do in Washington.

[Yoshi]

Here's a good article for Yoshi and Cheeks:



LETS BE MORE LIKE CHINA GUYZ, SRSLY

The guy has some good points. Obama is a 24/7/365 campaign machine. All he does is campaign, because he doesn't know how to govern, run a business, or do anything else of value. And yet a huge number of idiots voted for the guy because they were too blind to see that. I'm certainly not proposing longer terms. In fact, I'd rather see term limits in more places LIKE CONGRESS, but when every day is a campaign day, nothing of value gets done.

[Yoshi]

Nah, man. Fuck that. People have no jobs, no food, nothing. It's time to tax them more so they look for work harder. Afterall, the harder they look the more jobs magically appear.

There are plenty of jobs out there. The shortage is of qualified candidates to fill them, especially in areas that matter like science and math. We should cut all public funding for liberal arts programs in universities. Let the kids be well rounded in high school, but get them in a program where they might actually contribute to society in college for Christ's sake, or let them pay for their bullshit philosophy degree themselves.

[Drewbacca]

How do we compete with that? We're not going to live like that. It flies in the face of our consumer culture. We all want our own apartments, and our own cars, and gobs of other useless shit. Which one of us is going to volunteer to get paid shit and live in a company dorm room so our country can have cheap American goods?

But something needs to be done about it. It was heart breaking being a factory engineer and having to answer questions about "when are we going to see more/new products" or "things aren't as business as they used to be...". I don't like talking to people twice my age that are scared for their jobs.

This is one of your smarter posts because you actually have relevant experience in the field (and what you're saying is knowledgeable). Everyone loves socialism until they're the one who has to give up their stock. Every bleeding-heart vocal-minority socialist-pride waving liberal I have ever met always preaches the gospel of sharing until everyone is equal until they have to put up their money or pass it around. Then it's complete and utter tantrum-town. LIFE ISN'T FAIR, etc. Reminds me of that scene with Clint Eastwood and the Preacher:

Preacher: See here, you can't turn all these people out into the night. It is inhuman, brother. Inhuman!
Clint: I'm not your brother.
Preacher: We are all brothers in the eyes of God.
Clint: All these people, are they your sisters and brothers?
Preacher: They most certainly are.
Clint: ...Then you won't mind if they come over and stay at your place, will ya?

There are great, open ways to achieve what people want. First and foremost there has to be a level playing field across the board. By that I mean any region that wants industrialization and foreign money should have to abide by living, social and humane standards for work practice, wage, conditions and other things of that nature. Living in factories may be great for China, but it's also a pretty dismal way to live. The evidence is in the suicide rates amongst workers. Make India and China and other nations raise their minimum wage to compete with the standards of industrialized nations. Then we'll talk about what's fair. There's also a back-door risk of companies using this to take liberty away from the people (including America and Canada) by the way Diffusionx pointed out. "Well if you want jobs... this is what you have to do!"

Secondly media needs to be a completely not-for-profit business model. Fox News and CNN have so much spin on the news it's retarded. There was a horrible fire amongst garment workers in India last year that received no publicity at all. But that incident mirrored exactly the garment district fire that killed dozens of women workers in New York and spawned a public fervor so vicious the government created amazing new labour laws, and that in turn spawned the garment district and changed world fashion forever. Where was the out cry of the bodies of charred women this time? Nobody even saw a thing.

I am not anti-union as a rule of thumb. But I am skeptical about their effectiveness in a global marketplace, and in a country with pretty good labour laws (US and Canada) compared to other countries. There needs to be a universal charter before any of it will matter. The psychological profile of a business is the psychopath, after all. Plan accordingly knowing that this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Since I've taken forever to resume the conversation I was having with Drew...

If we were to raise a gas tax and make gas more expensive (just enough to make peeps uncomfortable paying, I don't advocate making it prohibitively expensive) would make it easier for alt. energy and transportation to be more lucrative. As it stands an atl. engergy provider would need to have either mass government subsidies to compete with the already subsidized and cheap as shit gas or some how trump in terms of output/cost. It's also possible/probable even that any source of sustainable power will always and permanently be more expensive than gas is today (even at scared Libya inflated rates) and the sooner we get every one used to the idea and on board the better.

This is going to happen eventually if alternative energy proves itself superior to consumers or superior to shareholders. If neither of those things come true then gas is the better energy source, period. Taxing it does nothing but lay a superfluous morality charge overtop the issue. Like I said petroleum is STILL the cleanest and most effective energy source we have right now. Maybe in 2/4/6/8 months that will be different with all of the new research companies are doing.

Going back to my comment initially about how socialists love spreading the wealth so long as it isn't theirs. Your comments about "not caring after you're done being a pizza delivery guy" is completely on the money in that regard. If Liberals were really out to change the world and not grand-stand on morality you wouldn't be advocating the increased subjugation of every delivery man coming in after you to make their living for a better life. Infrastructure should always grow to meet the demand. Supply and demand economics. Don't choke the system to leggup yourself. That's essentially where lobbying comes from in the first place.

[Diff-chan]

This is one of your smarter posts because you actually have relevant experience in the field (and what you're saying is knowledgeable). Everyone loves socialism until they're the one who has to give up their stock. Every bleeding-heart vocal-minority socialist-pride waving liberal I have ever met always preaches the gospel of sharing until everyone is equal until they have to put up their money or pass it around. Then it's complete and utter tantrum-town. LIFE ISN'T FAIR, etc.

I don't know what dipshits you were talking to but this is some hot bullshit. Without getting into the minutiate of the evolution of a social welfare system in a developed country, I'll just say that I understand why the USA has less of a system than most of the developed world, and it is reasonable. But right now the meager system we do have is being attacked by an assault of lies and strawmen.

Here in the USA right now it is all about "shared sacrifice" and "fiscal austerity" and "out of control deficit." Yet at the same time they are talking up this stuff they ram through a $800 billion+ series of tax cuts for the ultra rich. How in the world can they say they care about austerity and the deficit when they do that?

The answer is they don't. When you pair that up with the fact that these cuts in spending are putting people out of work, which in turn is slowing down the economy even more, you start to realize that the entire political debate as it exists today in the US has absolutely zero basis in reality. And that is very frustrating!

Also, if I am making $1 million or more a year I would be happy to pay an extra few bucks in taxes. Because, uhh, I'm making a million dollars a year. Warren Buffett has said the same exact thing and he has millions of capitalists hanging off his nuts.

[Bojack]

This is going to happen eventually if alternative energy proves itself superior to consumers or superior to shareholders. If neither of those things come true then gas is the better energy source, period. Taxing it does nothing but lay a superfluous morality charge overtop the issue. Like I said petroleum is STILL the cleanest and most effective energy source we have right now. Maybe in 2/4/6/8 months that will be different with all of the new research companies are doing.

Going back to my comment initially about how socialists love spreading the wealth so long as it isn't theirs. Your comments about "not caring after you're done being a pizza delivery guy" is completely on the money in that regard. If Liberals were really out to change the world and not grand-stand on morality you wouldn't be advocating the increased subjugation of every delivery man coming in after you to make their living for a better life. Infrastructure should always grow to meet the demand. Supply and demand economics. Don't choke the system to leggup yourself. That's essentially where lobbying comes from in the first place.

Oil and gas is indeed the most convenient way to do shit these days. It's also a finite way to do shit. I don't see how convincing people to ration a limited natural resource is a bad thing. I too want the best infrastructure possible. Cheap gas does little to help infrastructure of the future. No one will ride a solar powered bullet train if gas is a $0.95/L.

You got me on the "I don't care as long as it doesn't affect my pizza delivery" mentality so I'll discard it. This does go back to my idea of giving tax breaks/credits/subsidies to companies involved in delivering/transporting goods. Tax break Papa Johns for an amount determined to be fair by the gov. and Papa John or something and then give it to PJ that can then give their drivers cash/delivery (which they do already w/o the tax breaks). I don't particularly "want" to increase the burden on people. Ideally we could seamlessly go from gas to some kind of sustainable bio-diesel but we're smart enough to know that won't happen. I still reject the notion that we should sit idle and not accelerate alt. energy because something that will have to be done some day may cause current economic hardship for some. This goes beyond morality-granstanding into a survivalist-grandstanding. We rationed shit in WWII. I don't see why we need a war to ration things, the government has tools to do this w/o going ape shit communist on its citizens as well.

[Yoshi]

My dad was a life long IAFF member, I would have been an IAFF member if I'd become a firefighter. If I didn't live in a Right to Work State where few unions exist I'd likely be in one. I've also worked similar jobs for less pay and benefits than union counterparts. Instead of asking how I could drag them to my level I wondered how I could be raised to their level.

Logically I just don't see how taking rights away from people is supposed to make America better.

Because those aren't rights, and those benefits cost money. This is a zero sum game, so someone has to pay for the extras.