The Obama Presidency

[dave is ok]

Eat shit Yoshi

[Advocate]

I don't think either side can claim victory.

It was sold as something not as a tax. SCOTUS upheld it as a tax. Medicare can be expanded, but Congress can't punish the states if they don't want too.

[Advocate]

also: States can opt out of ACA.

[Diff-chan]

1. No, Obama can claim victory, as this was his signature domestic policy achievement. It doesn't matter what something was sold at.
2. Medicaid, not Medicare.

[Advocate]

see also: I'm reading the entire ruling.

[Advocate]

I love how the pundits are making this an overtly complicated ruling.

Its easier to read than the actual Bill.

anyone who's interested:
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...11-393c3a2.pdf

[Diff-chan]

States already can opt out of it. It's part of the law.

The people in the state still have to carry insurance however.

[Advocate]

States already can opt out of it. It's part of the law.

The people in the state still have to carry insurance however.

No no no ... I mean in the law, right now, if the states opted out ... they would be penalized. Their Medicaid funding would be cut. SCOTUS in this ruling said ... if they opt out they CANNOT be penalized. That would expand Congress's power beyond the 10th amendment. So, States can opt out now without penalty.

Also, after reading 10 pages ... I don't think this is a victory.

Congress can't compell an individual to buy insurance, but instead you'll be taxed. I see it as Unemployment. I don't use it, but I am taxed for it; in case I ever need it. That is small potatoes to the expansion of Medicaid. Those 17 million who this would have covered is now ... gone.

[Diff-chan]

That's just the Medicaid expansion. States don't have to do it and Congress can't punish them by taking away the existing Medicaid money. It'd be dumb for the states to do that since the feds are kicking in 90%-100% of the money for the expansion, but they can do it.

That's only one part, though. The Court said that the mandate, as a tax, was an appropriate use of Congress' taxing powers. Just like, say, the income tax. Can Alabama "opt out" of the federal income tax and tell its citizens they don't have to pay it?

[Advocate]

The law expanded Medicaid to accept 17 million new individuals. The way I am reading the ruling.

1. They can't.
2. If The States refuse the expansion they can't be forced by Congress to accept new individuals.

So, you tell me. And no I don't mean to be a smartass here.