The Obama Presidency

[Finch]

WAHHHHHHHHH

AMERICA IS RUINED


TIME TO MOVE TO MEXICOOOOOOOOOO

[A Robot Bit Me]

I am healthy, can take care of myself financially, and have plenty leftover. I am obligated to those who aren't healthy or can't take care of themselves until I am unhealthy or can't take care of myself. It's not a zero sum game when my extra money is worth more to someone who needs it than it is to me.

[Andrew]

This is almost always the case. It's called living in a society with other people.

Yes, but in a fair and just society we should not reallocate the sweat of a man's brow indiscriminately.

If granny is old and infirm and has diabeetus and needs her insulin, of course we should help. She is saddled with an ailment that she did not choose, her financial station is unlikely to change, and it is generally agreed that we take care of our elderly and disabled.

But let's say Johnny Entitled goes out and has lots of unprotected sex, contracts syphilis, and cannot pay for his treatment. Who pays for it? Me? I didn't have a say in Johnny's high-risk behavior, but I am saddled with the bill. He's free to fuck his brains out and deal with the consequences on his own, but he has no right to charge me and in so doing whittle away my freedom.

This can be extended to anything. Alcohol, tobacco, fast food, fried food, overeating, sexual promiscuity.... The list goes on. In order to ensure that Johnny Entitled doesn't do things that could cost me, we would have to ban a wide variety of activists across all of society. And there go more freedoms.

When solving society's problems, the solutions should provide everybody with more freedom, not less. Anything else is a failure and not the American way.

[Andrew]

I am healthy, can take care of myself financially, and have plenty leftover. I am obligated to those who aren't healthy or can't take care of themselves until I am unhealthy or can't take care of myself. It's not a zero sum game when my extra money is worth more to someone who needs it than it is to me.

That's your decision to make, not the federal government's. If you feel obligated, then by all means, give it all away. Just leave me out of it.

[Bojack]

Trust that I would like nothing more than to see all the people who are on the payer side leave the handout crew behind to fend for themselves.

You mean labor leaving the capital behind and taking over means of production leaving the wealthy parasites to fend for themselves? I could get behind that too.

But let's say Johnny Entitled goes out and has lots of unprotected sex, contracts syphilis, and cannot pay for his treatment. Who pays for it? Me? I didn't have a say in Johnny's high-risk behavior, but I am saddled with the bill. He's free to fuck his brains out and deal with the consequences on his own, but he has no right to charge me and in so doing whittle away my freedom.

You will pay for it anyways when he stiffs the hospital...... jus sayin'.

[Diff-chan]

That's your decision to make, not the federal government's. If you feel obligated, then by all means, give it all away. Just leave me out of it.

The whole point of a democratic system is that government exists so that people can make those sorts of decisions collectively.

[Andrew]

The whole point of a democratic system is that government exists so that people can make those sorts of decisions collectively.

You're right. But be honest--do you really think that is what happens, at least in recent years?

[Diff-chan]

No, this country's legislative process is all screwed up, for tons of reasons. But I mean, this law was passed by both houses of Congress and signed by a President. All people involved were duly elected. And more generally, so was Medicare. So was Medicaid, and Part D (Tauzin/Delay shenanigans aside). Clearly people believe that healthcare should be, in some form, treated as a public good.

[Finch]

I'm already paying for everyone else's fucking healthcare because i have insurance and i don't cash in on this shit until i get hit by a car or my intestines explode.

[Andrew]

No, this country's legislative process is all screwed up, for tons of reasons. But I mean, this law was passed by both houses of Congress and signed by a President. All people involved were duly elected. And more generally, so was Medicare. So was Medicaid, and Part D (Tauzin/Delay shenanigans aside). Clearly people believe that healthcare should be, in some form, treated as a public good.

Fair enough. For me, this has become less about health care and more about power and circumventing the Constitution.

We started as a country with a very limited federal government by design, the idea being that it's easier to control your fate and protect your freedoms if you keep as many things as possible as local as possible.

We know have a Supreme Court case establishing a precedent that the federal government can mandate anything it wants, whenever it wants, for whatever reason it wants. That is scary. A lot of liberals are okay with that right now, because it serves a long-standing pet cause. But the shoe will find its way to the other foot in due time.