The Obama Presidency

**Razor Ramon** · 28 Jun 2012, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Andrew

Question my politics if you wish, but please don't question my patriotism.

I thought you lived in Europe, you twat.

**Andrew** · 28 Jun 2012, 09:40 PM

I wasn't old enough to vote at the time, but I really liked Clinton. The federal government actually shrank while he was president. If you prefer to give credit for that to the Republican House, very well. But the fact remains that it happened under his watch.

It also occurred to me that I have always voted Democrat in Senate races. It's not a conscious thing, it's just that the Virginia GOP has a habit of putting up really bad candidates. And since George Allen, a terrible governor, got the nod this time, I'll be giving my vote to Tim Kaine. As a libertarian, I find that a moderate Dem will give me more of what I want than an entrenched, good ol' boy Rep.

Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

I thought you lived in Europe, you twat.

I'm just giving you the gears. I was in Korea for a while, now I'm in Guam.

**Andrew** · 28 Jun 2012, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Finch

I don't know. i think Libertarians and Republicans actually do dislike Obama for different reasons. One is because he's on the wrong side, the other is actually what he does.

Pretty much this. The Obamacare ruling, the NDAA, Fast and Furious, the SCOTUS ruling on frisking, the photographing of citizens' genitals at airports... It's way, WAY too much federal overreach. I'm beginning to no longer recognize my country, and that deeply concerns me.

This is why I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Romney. He isn't my ideal candidate, but I think he is more likely to send the pendulum in the other direction. He might not, but I'll give him a shot over four more years of a guaranteed bad deal.

**Razor Ramon** · 28 Jun 2012, 09:55 PM

My gears be grinding.

**Bojack** · 28 Jun 2012, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Andrew

Pretty much this. The Obamacare ruling, the NDAA, Fast and Furious, the SCOTUS ruling on frisking, the photographing of citizens' genitals at airports... It's way, WAY too much federal overreach. I'm beginning to no longer recognize my country, and that deeply concerns me.

This is why I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Romney. He isn't my ideal candidate, but I think he is more likely to send the pendulum in the other direction. He might not, but I'll give him a shot over four more years of a guaranteed bad deal.

Again you bring up issues that have little to do with Obama. Obamacare was upheld by the SCOTUS, not Obama and IIRC Obama had nothing to do with the writing of the bill. NDAA would have passed regardless of Obama veto. Fast and Furious is not looking so bad for Obama in actuality (Here).... and ( here). I dunno how you link the SCOTUS frisking ruling to Obama (correct me if I'm wrong) or the TSA shenanigans.

To think Mittens will actually grow a spine, stop waffling and flip flopping long enough to do something, and actually ride a wave of populist support to right the ills of America just sounds naive at this point given Mittens history. Another GOP candidate might do this, but I don't see Mittens doing this.

**Finch** · 28 Jun 2012, 10:23 PM

Mitt Romney is a terrible person all around. I only say that because of what he says, not what anyone else says.

**Andrew** · 28 Jun 2012, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bojack

Again you bring up issues that have little to do with Obama. Obamacare was upheld by the SCOTUS, not Obama and IIRC Obama had nothing to do with the writing of the bill. NDAA would have passed regardless of Obama veto. Fast and Furious is not looking so bad for Obama in actuality (Here).... and ( here). I dunno how you link the SCOTUS frisking ruling to Obama (correct me if I'm wrong) or the TSA shenanigans.

To think Mittens will actually grow a spine, stop waffling and flip flopping long enough to do something, and actually ride a wave of populist support to right the ills of America just sounds naive at this point given Mittens history. Another GOP candidate might do this, but I don't see Mittens doing this.

I know you can't lay everything at Obama's doorstep, and I'm not blind enough to think that Romney will be some great conservative savior of the republic, to say nothing of the fact that we share almost no common ground on social issues. But since Obama isn't about to push aggressively for legalization of things like drugs and prostitution either, the social stuff is a wash.

Which leaves us with the big government/small government stuff. Would the NDAA have passed with an Obama veto? Possibly. But the point is that he didn't veto it--he signed it into law on New Year's Eve when nobody was paying attention. See the difference? I don't understand why so-called liberals, who were so eager to rail against the PATRIOT Act, are willing to give the president a pass on NDAA, when the latter makes the former look like small potatoes.

And then there's the matter of our Forever War in Afghanistan. Remember about a month ago when the president made an additional ten-year commitment to the warlo... er, noble leaders of that country? You might not remember it because the press largely ignored it, but it happened. I would make a smart-ass remark about the Nobel Peace Prize, but it's really not a laughing matter. Will Romney change course and end the war? I don't know. But we can say with full certainty that Obama will not.