The Obama Presidency

[dave is ok]

I don't dispute any of that, but I don't see a path by which this law does anything but make it worse, even if it's not to the levels of the potentially political announcements. The statements from businesses like Papa John's are very real. It's a net increase in cost that absolutely has to be mitigated in some way, such as increased prices or reduced man hours.

They are real in the way that they exist, they are not real in the way they need to be taken seriously at all. Papa John is using this to get up on a soapbox and make a political point.

[Yoshi]

CVS just started charging their employees 600 dollars if they're a fatty

I don't think that's exactly accurate, but I saw the story to which you're referring. I think they charge them $600 if they won't get a health screening or something along those lines.

[Yoshi]

They are real in the way that they exist, they are not real in the way they need to be taken seriously at all. Papa John is using this to get up on a soapbox and make a political point.

How does it not need to be taken seriously? These businesses costs are going to go up. That is an indisputable fact. They have to mitigate those costs.

[Diff-chan]

They deserve to air their opinions like everyone else, but that's about it. Business costs go up for a lot of reasons, I don't see Papa John out there complaining when the price of cheese goes up.

It's a complicated situation. Maybe some of those low wage folks are on some forms of public assistance they can now get off because they get HI through their jobs. This cost-shifting is a good thing, it removes a negative externality that Papa John was benefitting from. Maybe some of them don't wait until they are at death's door before ringing up a $75,000 hospital bill they can't pay for. Etc.

More broadly, this goes to the point of why we have an economy and a system that I touched upon last page. I don't think this economy solely exists to fatten the bank account of Papa John. It also doesn't exist to bankrupt Papa John and use his money to buy t-bone steaks and Cadillacs for everyone either, keep in mind. But people who put in an honest day's work should be treated with dignity and be able to, at the least, go see a doctor when they are sick.

[GohanX]

Is that $600 a year? Ouch. I wonder if that is for people who may have been denied before. My insurance charges $300 a year to smokers, I wouldn't be surprised if a fat tax wasn't next.

[Yoshi]

Is that $600 a year? Ouch. I wonder if that is for people who may have been denied before. My insurance charges $300 a year to smokers, I wouldn't be surprised if a fat tax wasn't next.

If I remember correctly, it's actually going the other way. Obamacare makes it illegal to charge people with pre-existing conditions, including being a smoker or a fatty, more, so we'll be subsidizing them even more now.

[Yoshi]

It's a complicated situation. Maybe some of those low wage folks are on some forms of public assistance they can now get off because they get HI through their jobs. This cost-shifting is a good thing, it removes a negative externality that Papa John was benefitting from. Maybe some of them don't wait until they are at death's door before ringing up a $75,000 hospital bill they can't pay for. Etc.

That's an interesting but valid take on it.

[Gondolin]

The existence of communist governments around the world was great for Americans over those decades...

Interesting. I've never thought of it like that.

Edit: typo

[Timber]

If I remember correctly, it's actually going the other way. Obamacare makes it illegal to charge people with pre-existing conditions, including being a smoker or a fatty, more, so we'll be subsidizing them even more now.

With the happy by-product of people with serious conditions (not caused by overeating or smoking) being allowed to have any insurance period. It's a shit situation but I'd rather have people able to obtain insurance if they want to.

Healthcare is never going to thrive if it's run like a business that needs higher and higher returns every year.

It sickens me that I have to spend 60+ minutes on the phone with my insurer every time I visit the doctor and he orders blood tests. I didn't ask for these tests, my doctor decided that he needed them to get more info. But every single time Medical Mutual flatly refuses to pay for them because they're not the the list of what a person my age should be getting (since all humans' bodies behave exactly the same). I go through at least 3 levels of phone operators before they finally agree to pay them, or allow me to pay what they (Medical Mutual) would instead of what the lab charges any random uninsured person. I get a bill that says I have to pay $800 for the test but if it was being billed to my insurance it would be around $100. Sometimes I agree that not all tests have to be paid for by my insurer but I sure as hell should only have to pay what my insurer would.

[Yoshi]

There really, really needs to be a delineation made between existing conditions that are congenital and those that people earn. A person with, say, MS I have no issue subsidizing. A guy who smokes three packs a day can die on the street, hopefully where I can't smell him.