North Korean Rocket Launch (& New Nuke Test)

[icarusfall]

Arjue is right up there in the useless factor. Outside of some retarded one liners his whole game is to follow me around, blather, and fail...at the very least bbobb contributes something to the site.

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Nick review dude's last few years, what has he done to positively charge TNL?

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* Unless you sent him on a "troll biff" special operation. If this is the case, kudos, you passed go and collected 200 dollars because his purpose is beyond me.

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[haohmaru]

Oh. My. God. PLEASE, for the love of god read my whole post before you respond, because it's clear at this point you don't even know what this conversation is about. Let me spell this shit out ONE MORE FUCKING TIME:

Nuclear Fusion and Nuclear Fission are completely different technologies. The reactor where you live is a Fission reactor. No Nuclear Fusion reactor has ever been built yet. That's the problem.

If there was a Fusion reactor, there wouldn't be protests, because, unlike Fission, it doesn't create radioactive waste and cannot meltdown no matter what. The people protesting where you are aren't ignorant, they're concerned (perhaps overly so, granted) with real problems of Fission power. This would not be the case with Fusion power because it doesn't have those dangers and byproducts. It cannot meltdown, it's physically impossoble, and it doesn't create nuclear waste.

If I was talking about technology that they've had on Long Island for 30 fucking years, why would we be having this conversation at all?

Wow. You're going to sit there and tell me the impact of a technology that's been under research for SIXTY FUCKING PLUS YEARS and doesn't even exist yet? Of course it isn't nearly as risky as fission and I wasn't arguing that it was. I said that people don't want a nuclear reactor in their backyard and no amount of you trying to convince them how safe it is will change that. People don't even want electrical power plants or lines near them because of fear (whether substantiated or not). STOP PUTTING SHIT IN BOLD BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. Holy christ are you infantile sometimes. I wasn't making a fission/fusion argument. Next time I won't use an example, okay?

It depends on the field. In technologies where you put a year of R&D into it and put something on the shelves, no, but in terms of long-term research like genetics and space exploration, government funding has been absolutely crucial. These are things that aren't immediately of direct commercial interest, but which benefit humanity tremendously in the long run. This is one of those things.

I understand where you're going with this. I really do. That doesn't change the fact that it's prohibitively expensive in really, really bad economic times and you're not going to be able to sell it to the public. Clearly, if there were lots of profit to be made someone would've pursued it privately. After 6+ decades of research and who knows how much capital, they still don't have anything that works.

I'm not saying the government should release a new ipod or a version of Windows that works, but there ARE fields of research where we have to come together and say "This will be worth it in the long haul." We've been doing it for a long time. Put down the Ayn Rand, and turn off Hannity and realize this is nothing new and it doesn't make us commies.

Once we have the technology working, private industry takes over. We're talking about something that, at our present rate of development might take 40 years, but if we made it a priority we could have had it done by now.

I don't watch Hannity and haven't read Rand since the 7th grade. Maybe you need to stop modeling humanity after Stargate SG-1 and that fantasy world. Not much has ever been done, collectively, for the "good of humanity" - particularly when the costs are incredibly dubious. I doubt that's changing in the near future.

[haohmaru]

From a scientist answering a question about Fusion:

"Progress has been made on a variety of forms of fusion, but a practical
reactor that produces energy for sale to the public is probably
at least 20 years away. Basically, we probably could build one
within 5 years given enough money, but the cost of the resulting
energy would make it not commercially viable (because of the
cost of the components going into it, not the cost of the fuel).
There are plenty of other energy sources in the world that are likely
to help replace fossil fuels before fusion comes on line though,
simply because they (direct solar, ocean temperature, etc) can be
utilized practically for a much lower capital cost.
Dangers: the only real danger from a fusion reactor is the gradual
accumulation of radioactivity in the components and other
materials used in the area. This should be much lower than the
equivalent from fission energy."

Bold = it's all about the money and that's why it's not going to happen anytime soon. Which is the point I've been trying to make all along. I'm not really arguing with you, Frog. I'd much prefer going this route all over the world and get rid of polluting technologies. I just don't think it's going to happen in the near future.

[Othello Harrington]

We're not going to give Korea any fuel, can we move on for the love of god?

[haohmaru]

I guess.

In some ways, I really don't blame NK for doing what they're doing. No one was around in the 40's to tell us not to develop nuclear weapons, who are we (or the world) to tell a nation what to do? It doesn't change the fact that they should be putting their limited resources into their society instead of their weaponry, but that's not for me to say since I don't live there. Half the reason many cultures hate us is because we've become the self-imposed world police force without anyone's request.

[burgundy]

I understand where you're going with this. I really do. That doesn't change the fact that it's prohibitively expensive in really, really bad economic times and you're not going to be able to sell it to the public. Clearly, if there were lots of profit to be made someone would've pursued it privately. After 6+ decades of research and who knows how much capital, they still don't have anything that works.

the only reason we have nuclear fission technology is because the government funded the manhattan project. no consortium of private entities would ever undertake an expense of that magnitude. (nor should they, economically speaking.)

also: <buzzword>job creation</buzzword>

[haohmaru]

the only reason we have nuclear fission technology is because the government funded the manhattan project. no consortium of private entities would ever undertake an expense of that magnitude. (nor should they, economically speaking.)

also: <buzzword>job creation</buzzword>

Trying to beat your enemy to creating a nuclear weapon > creating a technology that costs more than it produces

<buzzword> think </buzzword>

[Joust Williams]

"No one was around in the 40's to tell us not to develop nuclear weapons, who are we (or the world) to tell a nation what to do?"

I suppose not, but we were in the middle of the biggest war in history and North Korea is doing nothing but starving their population so they can build bombs. As for the last sentence, everyone would like to act like the world police in this situation. People hate us because we're better. ;p Look at what we did to those pirates

[Othello Harrington]

Sigh....Had we not developed the bomb, germany would have since they were in process at the time. Do you people read history at all?

Also, had we not used the nuke, Japan would have fought until every last man was dead, they were that committed. At that point we would have had limited impact on our own soldier's death, as we would have carpet bombed them into nothingness. The alternative saved millions of Japanese lives as fucked up as that is.

As for North Korea, I say we don't give them shit, not one fucking thing, what have they done to earn it? They are much like that kid in school who would do retarded stuff to get attention, and when that attention was no longer applied, they went back to being normal. Stop paying attention, they can't even light up 1/2 of their country, their own people will eventually turn on the Il family, give it some time.

[Mr-K]

Has ignoring a kooky state hoping that they will fix themselves ever done anything but make it worse?