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Thread: Freelancers - HELP!

  1. Freelancers - HELP!

    Here's the skinny:

    Back in Dec. I started a project for my brother's boss' wife (figures, huh). Seemed easy enough - she wanted a design insert for these items she was to pitch and get on store shelves. I quoted her twice - once for all the items she talked about (2 logos, 5 designs) and again for just the logos and one design. She agreed to latter being on a tight budget. Understanding that I scaled down the contract - only one round of revisions, no alt designs. Clean and simple - keep in her budget while making it worth my time.

    Fast forward and it's been stupid nuts. She's changed one logo at least 3 times, had more than that for the package. Only thing she's kept in check is the last logo - one revision and we were done. I've explained to her in e-mails and over the phone that she's gone past this, and I wanted to start charging the hour rate that kicks in when this happens. Her reasoning why I shouldn't? We were almost done, and she didn't feel she had her 'one revision' yet and was let down that I didn't "put my own spin on it" effectively doing the work twice.

    So I felt a little sorry for her (and she's connected to my brother's job in a roundabout way) and believed her when she said all she needed were some final tweaks to make it perfect.

    Get an email over the weekend saying that her 'marketing' friend took a look at it and said there was all this shit wrong with it and should be changed. So now she wants even more work done based on someone else's input. How do I tell her to fuck off (or that I'm charging extra) while being as polite and professional as possible? And how do I do it while being sure my brother doesn't catch blowback if she decides to get crazy on me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Diff-chan View Post
    Careful. We're talking about games here. Fun isn't part of it.

  2. #2
    Hmm. All you were obligated to do were the initial designs and revisions. You went above and beyond, sounds like! Tell her that you have a busy schedule, and unfortunately wouldn't be able do any further revisions without getting compensated, as it would eat into the time you're able to work on paying jobs.

    After that, what's she gonna do, stab you?

  3. Well if they're professional there shouldn't be any blowback onto your brother. I would just lay it out for her. I would tell her she's had her revisions, if she wants these changes then it's going to cost X, Y and Z to do this. If she's ok with that then you can move forward, otherwise you feel it's time this project has run its course. That you've done all that you could for the money you've been paid. Just remember that your time is valuable and worth something. You're a polite individual I'm sure you can type out an email that lays that out. You just have to let her know that your time is worth something, and holds a value. That you'd like to keep doing work for her but if you're going to move forward she's going to need to acknowledge that, and pay you the money you deserve. I would imagine you probably gave her a damn good deal, you could always remind her just how much it would have cost her to go through an agency.
    Where I play
    Quote Originally Posted by Dolemite
    I've changed my mind about Korian. Anyone that can piss off so many people so easily is awesome. You people are suckers, playing right into his evil yellow hands.

  4. I wanted to mention that too - where could I find estimates of other designers/agencies for the same work? I only have anecdotal evidence and places online want serious inquiries to quote - I don't want to waste their time just to prove my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by YellerDog View Post
    After that, what's she gonna do, stab you?
    Well, she could refuse to pay what's left on the invoice (she paid a percentage upfront, the rest due on completion). At this point I'd say I'm willing to eat that cost, but it would also help cover the gallery costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diff-chan View Post
    Careful. We're talking about games here. Fun isn't part of it.

  5. Don't do any more work until you've been paid for what you've done, and tell her you'll give her an additional quote if she wants more work done after that.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hero View Post
    Well, she could refuse to pay what's left on the invoice (she paid a percentage upfront, the rest due on completion). At this point I'd say I'm willing to eat that cost, but it would also help cover the gallery costs.
    Hold the phones, you haven't been paid (at least 50%) yet? That... sucks. Watch her try to hold your money hostage. Cigs is right, get paid.
    Last edited by YellerDog; 24 Feb 2010 at 01:11 PM. Reason: reading + comprehension = lacking on my part today

  7. Do not be polite. Be curt and explain to her you meant one revision. If she wanted her marketing friends eye on the project she should have managed to have him sit with her when she wrote up the revisions to you. The project scope has blown up and the project is no longer bringing you money, but costing you money. She is an opportunistic person. If she senses you are hesitant she will steam roll your ass. The biggest mistake you made was not nipping this thing in the bud and getting nothing up front.

    Set payment terms. Always. 25% upon sign off of your quote. 25% upon delivery of first concept and the last 50% when the project is wrapped and delivered. You can put even more milestones in there if you feel comfortable. The only time I ever defer from this structure is if A) I'm throwing a softy for someone like that site i did for Mykozo and Josh awhile back or B) The client is a long term client that I am milking for work / partnering with for marketing. Nickel and diming them would be insulting to them. There is a certain level of professional respect companies like this get so long as they pay their bills on time.

    Everyone is a marketing expert. If she wants the copy bigger and it ruins the design my personal stance is to tell her off. Every design I do is a representation of me. Half the time the client always has a "goal" they're trying to achieve with bad instructions. A client may ask you to change the red in your layout to green. Ask her why. She may say: Oh well the design isn't green friendly enough. Green is really big right now as a selling proposition. In that case you should explain to her that changing things to green just to say you're green has become very tacky. And find a better way to go about it. This is all, of course, assuming that changing the red to green is a bad idea. Sometimes clients request things that are reasonable and don't hurt the design.
    Last edited by Drewbacca; 24 Feb 2010 at 12:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by rezo
    Once, a gang of fat girls threatened to beat me up for not cottoning to their advances. As they explained it to me: "guys can usually beat up girls, but we are all fat, and there are a lot of us."

  8. EDIT: Nevermind it looks like you did get some coin up front. Just be firm. Get paid and then continue. My point still stands that she's opportunistic and will take as much as she can get from you. Give her no quarter.
    Quote Originally Posted by rezo
    Once, a gang of fat girls threatened to beat me up for not cottoning to their advances. As they explained it to me: "guys can usually beat up girls, but we are all fat, and there are a lot of us."

  9. Drew and Cigs have the answer here. Get the rest of your money and a contract for how much the additional work is going to cost. If she gets uppity about you wanting more money then you are better off getting this chick out of your hair.

    I'm willing to bet she knows how much your time and work is worth. I guarantee you her marketing friend has already given her quotes of what local agencies would be charging her.

    Put it out there and be firm, you are still gonna be a way better deal.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Hero View Post
    I wanted to mention that too - where could I find estimates of other designers/agencies for the same work? I only have anecdotal evidence and places online want serious inquiries to quote - I don't want to waste their time just to prove my point.
    Isn't this footwork she should/should have/probably has done? I don't see why you should spend a second of your time looking up prices for her.

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