Battlefield 3

[Changeling]

Interview from Kotaku:

I had a chance to talk with Battlefield 3's executive producer, Patrick Bach. He was a pleasure to speak with, refreshingly frank about the game's development process, the challenges faced in making an ambitious multiplayer game like Battlefield 3, and even the technical difficulties they were having with the PC version that day. We talked for a while about the public reaction to the beta, which has been mixed.

Kotaku: So, how has it been, hearing some of the negative feedback from the Beta?

Patrick Bach: The only thing we can do is tell people that: "These are the things we have fixed since the beta." And also based on the feedback from the beta. But other than that… you need to let people play it. The problem with having a beta is that you hand out a product that is not done. Deliberately. You do it because you want to get feedback on not only what the players think, but also on how things are holding up, what can we read from the network traffic, how is everything holding up, how are all of the systems that are brand new holding up. You could argue that maybe we shouldn't do a beta."

It's a double-edged sword.

If we don't do [a beta], then we might have problems day one. So the only way to ensure that we have less problems day one is to have a beta. But if you have a beta (laughs) people will hate you, and think that you're stupid.

We get complaints like, "How can you guys miss obvious things like A, B, and C?" And we didn't miss it. We just weren't done with it. But we had to get it out so that we get results back, so we can fix it. The lead time when you do a beta is actually pretty long. You need to go through certification on consoles, and do a lot of things before you get it out. And since you want to get it out on all three platforms at the same time to avoid further whining… (chuckles)… it takes as long as the longest platform certification time.
"This was a real beta, and I don't think people are used to it. They get the product, and they think, "you have to entertain me," because it's an entertainment product."

How long is that?

Around a month and a half. Which means that when we're done with that beta, we say "Okay, this is it. Now let's go back and finish the game." When we got to the point [six weeks later] that we actually released the beta, the game was in completely different shape. We couldn't really tell people because then we'd have to go through the process again.

It sounds like certification hobbles the beta process somewhat.

Yes.

What's a way to make that better in the future?

One way of fixing the problem is… don't make betas. At least not open betas. Because often when you see betas, sometimes they are actually demos. But they call it a beta, to sound cool. This was a real beta, and I don't think people are used to it. They get the product, and they think, "you have to entertain me," because it's an entertainment product.

And it's like, "Well, it's a broken entertainment product, because we want your feedback." And they say, "Well, I understand that, but it's not polished enough!" And we say, "Well, that's exactly what we're talking about!"

So the challenge is: listen, but don't overreact. Understand that people are disappointed, but that you have to do it.

Or, don't do it. Don't make a beta. At least not an open one.

And just do closed testing.

But that's hard as well. We had an alpha as well, that was much worse.

Did any of that leak to the public?

Yes, it always does. And people complain about that as well, but it wasn't as many people. It wasn't such a big hassle. Now, it's a big thing, people make videos of it and we say, "yeah, thank you; we know, we know."

And what you're playing today [at this media event], except for the stability issues, the game doesn't have those issues anymore. It should be more or less 99% mitigated.

Yeah, other than the stability it runs fine. I'm not seeing too many in-game bugs.

But then of course, we do have those stability issues. And other frustrations.

Right, seems like there's always going to be some problem or another. So after it launches, you'll be looking at those things and updating the game?


Absolutely. Patching of this game and updating, if it's Battlelog or the core game, that's a big, long-term engagement. We really want to stay in the game post-launch. From an economic standpoint, that's not the cleverest thing to do, but that's not why we make games. We want to make games that we can be proud of, and releasing a game of this magnitude; it's quite a big game.

We know that we won't hit 100% at launch. We won't be able to say "It's perfect." Better to release it than to wait another year. Release it, and make sure we follow up on it. We've been shipping so many Battlefield games that we know that people will keep playing it. If it's good enough, they'll keep playing it.

I still play Bad Company 2.

But it wasn't great on day one. People hated it on day one. It was a complete disaster, according to the forums, it was the crappiest game ever. And then we patched it and fixed some issues. And now it's like some people think it was perfect from day one. It was the best game ever! Why can't Battlefield 3 be perfect from day one. But I mean [Battlefield 3 ] is much better today day one than Bad Company 2 was day one.

What did you think of the reaction to the beta for Bad Company 2? Was that beta feedback the same?

It was the same, just smaller. "It was the worst game ever." So we're used to it, but now it's blown out of proportion because there I think six times the amount of people playing the beta as we had in Bad Company and it's the same problems. They say the same things, "You're stupid," "We hate you,"

And we're like… "Sorry!

Couldn't have put it any better really. Old school BF fans will say over and over again that Dice games ship broken and end up awesome. Anytime I get disgusted with Dice games, esp in beta, I just walk away and wait. Thats what I did with this beta. It sucked, so I would check in on it periodically, but I wouldn't punish myself. Anyone thats casually reading this thread but not interacting please be aware that this game WILL be awesome. It may take a little while to balance everything out, but the end product will be better than ANY military fps out there. It will be supported for years to come. Long after the yearly COD-machine shits out yet ANOTHER cookie-cutter game that the masses eat up, Dice will be balancing and supporting its game way beyond that time frame. 2142 got another patch and more maps at the beginning of this year! BF2 was the same. 5 years and the support still came through, long after there were other games out including console ones.

So give this game a shot. There are lots of players on TNL and beyond. Xbox or PC, it don't matter. I'm there. PS3 I'm not sure if anyone is gonna be playing from here. I'd like to hear feedback from anyone thats playing on that console though.

[sedition]

Beta was already awesome.. especially when Caspian Border unlocked.

Origin and Battlelog are pretty terrible. Nerf the UMP.

[ElCapichan]

For those BF fans, playing the beta you realize that the core gameplay is amazing. A few nights ago, we managed to get 7 people on the same team and it was amazing. Just last night there were 3 of us in a squad and had a blast. It's a beta, of course there is going to be problems and the the beta was such an old build. Will the game be perfect day one? Hell no, but those of us who aren't pretentious assholes will still have fun.

[Error]

I played the Beta once. That's all I needed. The problem this game is having is people assuming it's actually a demo. That's DICE's fault though. Or EA. Whoever made that wonderful decision.

And Changeling I'll be getting this on the PS3.

[Changeling]

Good update on the state of BF3 from Joystiq:

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/10/10/th...battlefield-3/

I'm glad to hear that the almost final version of the game is leagues better than the beta.

[Destro777]

Old school BF fans will say over and over again that Dice games ship broken and end up awesome. Anytime I get disgusted with Dice games, esp in beta, I just walk away and wait. Thats what I did with this beta. It sucked, so I would check in on it periodically, but I wouldn't punish myself. Anyone thats casually reading this thread but not interacting please be aware that this game WILL be awesome. It may take a little while to balance everything out, but the end product will be better than ANY military fps out there. It will be supported for years to come. Long after the yearly COD-machine shits out yet ANOTHER cookie-cutter game that the masses eat up, Dice will be balancing and supporting its game way beyond that time frame. 2142 got another patch and more maps at the beginning of this year! BF2 was the same. 5 years and the support still came through, long after there were other games out including console ones.

So give this game a shot. There are lots of players on TNL and beyond. Xbox or PC, it don't matter. I'm there. PS3 I'm not sure if anyone is gonna be playing from here. I'd like to hear feedback from anyone thats playing on that console though.

Well said. DICE has a near decade long track record of supporting their games. They made a mistake of releasing a true beta open to all of the public - but EA probably wanted some form of demo out. They should have kept it just for preorders or even just MOH buyers. The BF3 beta wasnt the same kind of "beta" as stuff like Gears or Halo Reach. Those weren't betas - those games were basically already finished. The public doesnt know any better though. The article changeling posted says it all.

BF3 won't be unplayable from day 1 but it is practically impossible to make it perfectly balanced out of the gate. The game is too massive and too open for out of the box strategies. It WILL go through massive changes in its lifetime. This is always interesting to see how an entire game can change on the fly. In every recent BF3 DICE interview they keep saying "launch is just the beginning" - this is always the case with Battlefield. DICE supports their games!

2 weeks to go. I cannot wait. Battlefield maps are so fun when you see them for the first time and start developing strategies for them. One of my favorite things in all of videogames.

[jyoung]

Got my $20 coupon today from Kmart.

It's going towards BC2.

Shit better not disappoint.

[Changeling]

BC2?

[Destro777]

BC2. hah. A year too late buddy.

[Destro777]

BF3 hardcore mode sounds awesome!
Its exactly what i was asking for.
Too bad there are 2 separate modes splitting the game again though - the entire game should be this way.

Hardcore mode features:

-(the big one) Squad Leader spawning ONLY. Full squad spawning only in normal mode.
-mini map is in Hardcore mode! (i was asking for this for a long time)
-since theres a mini map, spotting will likely only show on the map like BF2, at least vacant vehicles will show up if nothing else
-heightened bullet damage (still my biggest beef with HC but you get used to it)
-friendly fire
-squad leader spawning only
-no health regen
-no vehicle regen
-no kill cam
-squad leader spawning only!!!!!

http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/2011/1...battlefield/2/

All the BF3 maps are being revealed on Friday