Official Wii U Thread

[Diff-chan]

MS and Sony wouldn't have waited this long in the first place if they were eager to release new hardware, especially if they were both twitching to get the jump on each other. Obviously they'd both like to release first, but it seems like it's more important to them to ride this out a little longer and fine-tune their next-gen consoles. Plus there's the issue of manufacturing hangups in Asia that could make a 2013 launch impossible anyway, especially for Microsoft, and Sony repeatedly insisting that a new console isn't launching soon. They're competing with the Wii U in the sense that strong Wii U sales would signal a tangible desperation for new consoles, and waiting too long in that scenario could hurt.

You could argue that we already know there's a tangible desperation for new consoles, but we're "core" players on a videogame message board. Company execs go by balance sheets, and both Sony and MS are doing very well with their current hardware. MS shareholders are exerting pressure to do something to jumpstart things, which is why I think it's more likely we see a new Xbox. Sony's got it's head way up it's ass.

Obviously they aren't eager to release new hardware, it doesn't mean that they don't have to. You seem to think that holding on to PS3 and 360 has no consequences except for more profits for Sony and MS, this is not the case.

I would argue that there is a tangible desperation for new consoles, and I see 25%-50% drops in sales year over year, along with rapidly shrinking software sales and less software support. If that doesn't scream desperation, what would?

[Geo]

At this point - particularly next Fall with the new consoles - you're catering to two different markets with little if any cannibalism between the two. Sony for example will try to sell a The Last of Us 250GB PS3 bundle for $200 to families/parents (probably not the best game for that specific purpose; typical Sony savvy) at the same time as their $400 next-gen console to the early-adopters. If anything, retail space will be the problem.

The new consoles need to come out in Fall 2013, and MS and Sony know it. Personally I'd love for the industry to stick with the 360 (and PS3) for a couple of more years even, it keeps delivering great games, but that's not the reality of the situation.

It was Nintendo who handled the transition about as poorly as one could, with a disastrous tail-end for the Wii.

[Joust Williams]

More people need to buy games like Max Payne 3. I think new hardware will be great, but really, how large is the group of people that like the games we do anymore? People's time isn't infinite and it's getting eaten up by WoW bullshit.

[SpoDaddy]

The demand for new consoles has always been driven by gamers wanting to bring the arcade/high end PC experience to the living room; the reason this generation has been so long is because we've hit the point of diminishing returns. For the average player, 360/PS3 graphics are still top-notch. The real issue is that the average schmoe that likes games here and there can get their fix on the cheap via their smartphone. For people like us that take games more seriously, buttonless videogames will always hold limited appeal, but we're the minority. I don't think Sony or MS even know exactly what they want their next consoles to entail yet, and there is value in watching how people take to the second screen on the Wii U before locking yourself into the next gen.

[Joust Williams]

Stuff like 'second screen' has long been decided on though.

[Yoshi]

The demand for new consoles has always been driven by gamers wanting to bring the arcade/high end PC experience to the living room

I'm with you through the arcade part. You don't understand PC gaming if you think the second part is true.

the reason this generation has been so long is because we've hit the point of diminishing returns.

Unless you care about small things like resolution, frame rate, or AI...

For the average player, 360/PS3 graphics are still top-notch.

Well, yeah. He also connects his 360/PS3 with composite cables and probably has basic cable connected through coaxial into his 55" HDTV.

The real issue is that the average schmoe that likes games here and there can get their fix on the cheap via their smartphone.

These are two different markets that overlap somewhat but nowhere near what you're claiming. How many people play Madden or Call of Duty on their phone?

For people like us that take games more seriously, buttonless videogames will always hold limited appeal, but we're the minority.

In terms of elbows and assholes, sure. In terms of how much we are willing to spend on games? I'm not sold.

I don't think Sony or MS even know exactly what they want their next consoles to entail yet, and there is value in watching how people take to the second screen on the Wii U before locking yourself into the next gen.

You don't have any concept of a development cycle if you think that. Third parties don't develop games in a month. They have to have reasonably representative development fits far in advance. Sony and MS know exactly what we might get. I say might, because some features may still get whacked for cost reasons.

[SpoDaddy]

I'm with you through the arcade part. You don't understand PC gaming if you think the second part is true.

I understand that many PC gamers play on their living room tv, but it's still got a stigma that holds back mainstream console gamers.

Unless you care about small things like resolution, frame rate, or AI...

Better AI is promised every time new hardware comes along, and we rarely if ever see it because it's expensive to develop and doesn't provide a great return on investment. Most people don't really notice a difference between upscaled 720p and native 1080p, or frame rate for that matter once it's above 40 or so.

Well, yeah. He also connects his 360/PS3 with composite cables and probably has basic cable connected through coaxial into his 55" HDTV.

At this point I would assume most players are using HDMI or component on HDTV's (even the new Nintendo hardware comes exclusively with an HDMI cable). I'd be interested in reading a study about that.

These are two different markets that overlap somewhat but nowhere near what you're claiming. How many people play Madden or Call of Duty on their phone?

Most of the people I know that used to play Madden or Call of Duty on consoles have a dusty 360 at home and mostly just play stuff like Jetpack Joyride on their iphones nowadays. The people I work with are intrigued by my Vita but don't care enough to buy one. I don't see many people playing both console games and iphone games, it seems like you play iphone games because you can't be bothered by the cost and/or time commitment of console games anymore.

In terms of elbows and assholes, sure. In terms of how much we are willing to spend on games? I'm not sold.

Obviously we spend more on games than phone gamers.

You don't have any concept of a development cycle if you think that. Third parties don't develop games in a month. They have to have reasonably representative development fits far in advance. Sony and MS know exactly what we might get. I say might, because some features may still get whacked for cost reasons.

I'm sure the basic architecture is all laid out, but they could easily both still be exploring controller options.

[MechDeus]

Unless you care about small things like resolution, frame rate, or AI...

And animations, which developers like Bethesda have stated that they've had to hold back on due to memory limits.

How many people play Madden or Call of Duty on their phone?

Seems like a decent amount, actually. Call of Duty: Zombies always seems to be high up on the iPhone sales listings, Gameloft is up to the fourth game of their COD ripoff series and three games in their Halo ripoff series, and a F2P Madden social game came out not too long ago.

[Yoshi]

Seems like a decent amount, actually. Call of Duty: Zombies always seems to be high up on the iPhone sales listings, Gameloft is up to the fourth game of their COD ripoff series and three games in their Halo ripoff series, and a F2P Madden social game came out not too long ago.

I should have said exclusively on their phone. I get that people will play that when they're at the dentist's office, but I'm not buying that they're replacing their 360 version with it.

[Yoshi]

I understand that many PC gamers play on their living room tv, but it's still got a stigma that holds back mainstream console gamers.

That isn't what I meant... at all. PC gaming is about flexibility: any controller you want, mods, etc.

Better AI is promised every time new hardware comes along, and we rarely if ever see it because it's expensive to develop and doesn't provide a great return on investment. Most people don't really notice a difference between upscaled 720p and native 1080p, or frame rate for that matter once it's above 40 or so.

It's impossible to argue what "most people" or the "average player" notice, but the difference is significant.

At this point I would assume most players are using HDMI or component on HDTV's (even the new Nintendo hardware comes exclusively with an HDMI cable). I'd be interested in reading a study about that.

I'm interested as well. I suspect it is way, way lower than we think.

Most of the people I know that used to play Madden or Call of Duty on consoles have a dusty 360 at home and mostly just play stuff like Jetpack Joyride on their iphones nowadays. The people I work with are intrigued by my Vita but don't care enough to buy one. I don't see many people playing both console games and iphone games, it seems like you play iphone games because you can't be bothered by the cost and/or time commitment of console games anymore.

AnecSpotal 2: The Revenge

Obviously we spend more on games than phone gamers.

And even the Madden crowd I would think, though there are a lot of them. I probably make up for 12 of the Madden/CoD crowd by myself for example.

I'm sure the basic architecture is all laid out, but they could easily both still be exploring controller options.

You may have seen the Move/Dual Shock hybrid Sony patented. I believe they are making decisions like that. MS and Sony are absolutely not considering a tablet controller though. They're down to a few competing options that are probably somewhat similar by now.