Surface by Microsoft

[Diff-chan]

How does Apple not foster creativity? They've gone from death's door to the most successful company in the world in 15 years. They did it by upending the music, computer, and phone industries - big, entrenched industries with lots of powerful players. You don't do that by stagnating.

[Brisco Bold]

How does Apple not foster creativity? They've gone from death's door to the most successful company in the world in 15 years. They did it by upending the music, computer, and phone industries - big, entrenched industries with lots of powerful players. You don't do that by stagnating.

I'm talking about his specific argument regarding management. Attracting creative talent rather than scaring them away/controlling them without any input. His limited definition, the framework for his article and case study, renders his argument nonsensical. That's all I'm saying.

Apple is not known for being a lovey-dovey, Google-esque, give-everyone-one-hour-of-work-time-to-come-up-with-cool-ideas sort of company. Management is heavy-handed, employees are routinely dressed down, their creativity at times unappreciated.

By contrast, the place seems like it'd a nightmare to work at—the opposite of Microsoft.

All I'm saying is the author's argument does not work the way he framed it.

[Changeling]

No, the masses are bored with it too. Sales down 40% in May (y/y) and 20% in April.

Till next November. Of course sales are down. It's April and May and 6 1/2 years into this gen. The next gen will come out with it cellphone-like pricing infastructure ad the masses will eat it up again. While grandpa TNL will turn to PC gaming and Sony. And we're better for it.

[Diff-chan]

That's what the (y/y) meant. May 2012 was 40% down from May 2011. The whole retail market is really struggling.

Brisco: I don't think that's a fair characterization. If Apple really was this horrible place to work for, they wouldn't be able to get top talent. Jobs was a tyrant but good ideas and good talent got rewarded, which is what is important. You need management to set the right tone and I don't think there is any doubt that Apple accomplished that.

And Google really isn't that company anymore either, from what I've read.

Microsoft is an interesting case. Windows 8 is a pretty big shake up for the company. I don't really care for the OS but I will be following them closely the next few years.

[Calliander]

By contrast, the place seems like it'd a nightmare to work at—the opposite of Microsoft.

Apple corporate is a perfectly great place to work. They challenge you and take you out of your comfort zone so I guess you could see that as aggressive or something, but they do it to spur creativity. From what I hear, MS is the same way.

Apple retail turned into armageddon, though. The people in charge have lost their minds, and it happened well before Ron Johnson's departure. I have no clue what working at a Microsoft store is like.

[Drewbacca]

The article is full of half truths. The truth is Microsoft has never ever been a one trick pony. They diversified in the 90's and early 00's like nobody's business. And regardless of how long it took the Xbox brand to reach success - it did. From everything I read about the original Xbox upon the Xbox 360's release their plan was always more of a long term thing. Their online system also offers an enticing way to link PC, mobile and console together. Windows 7 is a great platform and, at the very least, they're focusing on what matters about this new tablet rather than doing what Samsung does with spec overload.

Failure or not, Microsoft is doing ok and have built a relatively good platform for devs. If this continues on a mobile platform I'll be happy (as a mobile dev and UX designer, especially).

Apple retail turned into armageddon, though. The people in charge have lost their minds, and it happened well before Ron Johnson's departure. I have no clue what working at a Microsoft store is like.

Apple stores are probably the worst customer experience I've ever had. Every time. Apple markets themselves in a very special way. They approach things from a "why" perspective (rather than a "what" perspective) and that helps them not be tied down to a specific product offering. They also let it guide what products they develop to some pretty stellar results (as we all know).

[Brisco Bold]

Apple corporate is a perfectly great place to work. They challenge you and take you out of your comfort zone so I guess you could see that as aggressive or something, but they do it to spur creativity. From what I hear, MS is the same way.

Apple retail turned into armageddon, though. The people in charge have lost their minds, and it happened well before Ron Johnson's departure. I have no clue what working at a Microsoft store is like.

Interesting. And thanks for the correction/explanation. Though, this still does prove my point—if they're exactly the same then the article is horse-shit.

[Brisco Bold]

Apple stores are probably the worst customer experience I've ever had. Every time.

Apple Stores are overwhelming. Sensory overload. Too many people just milling about.

[Diff-chan]

With the Apple Store app, you can just go to the store, scan a product into your phone, pay for it through your iTunes account, and walk out. I tried it once and it's easily the best shopping experience I've ever had.

[Razor Ramon]

You ever buy a hooker in Amsterdam? Doubt it's as easy as that.