TNL US Tax Thread 2014

**George** · 02 Feb 2014, 02:20 AM

what happens if you don't pay it by april 15th and you're self employed?

Penalties, I imagine, same as anyone who doesn't pay. Sometimes they take it off a tax refund if you decide to file a return in later years. I've had to tell lots of people that their refunds disappeared due to child support back payments, back taxes and penalties, even federal student loans. My own parents actually had this problem where they didn't file for three years (lord knows why) early in their marriage and had their wages garnished for a little while.

IRS.GOV is a pretty good repository for forms, schedules and rules regarding each and every one. You can probably find out a lot if you link hop as if you were in Wikipedia.

**Fe 26** · 02 Feb 2014, 02:35 AM

Looking at it, and knowing how he pays bills, I have an idea what he was doing. He was in his 20s or 30s in the 80s. He picked up a lot of bad money habits from that period and used credit cards like people that were up and coming in the 80s.

If I had to guess, he was putting off paying his taxes until the penalty matched his credit card interest rate, then just paid it off with the CC if he had anything left. Instead of of saving for his taxes, he was looking at it like a loan.

Which is pretty stupid because he probably filed as a sole proprietorship. (maybe not if he was an LLC or Corp, some people believe that you should hold no personal debt, but leverage a LLC or corp as much as possible since if the walls come crashing down you can just pass the debt onto tax payers via bankruptcy, but that it is a discussion for another thread).

ugh, the habits he picked up in the 80s.

**Yoshi** · 11 Feb 2014, 01:33 PM

I have one for you, dog$. I understand that if a self employed person had zero tax liability the prior year, then she is exempt from paying estimated taxes during the current year. How does that work when married filing jointly? Can the husband have had tax liability the prior without the self employed wife needing to pay estimated tax during the current year?

**Fe 26** · 11 Feb 2014, 06:57 PM

I'm not sure what I do to pay taxes? Or more precisely, to get money back. I have my W2. And I can print something off via the student loan site for the filing of the taxes.

fart

**YellerDog** · 11 Feb 2014, 07:09 PM

Protip: If you have 1099 work you will fuck yourself over unintentionally if you don't watch out.

**Frogacuda** · 11 Feb 2014, 07:32 PM

I got my first refund in years this year. My biggest ever, too.

**YellerDog** · 11 Feb 2014, 07:34 PM

Hey big man, lemme hold a dollar.

**dog$** · 11 Feb 2014, 07:35 PM

Fe, you'll need to use those forms to file your Federal and state returns. IRS site has free file for certain situations, of which you probably qualify to use. Otherwise, you'll purchase a tax preparation program or hire a preparer to have your returns completed.

Yoshi, here's what I know off the top of my head. No penalties for underwithholding are imposed as long as you have withheld an amount equal to 100% of your tax liability of the previous year. Tax liabilities imposed on married persons are joint and several, which means that unless the returns are filed MFS, each spouse is considered to be subject of 50% of whatever the liability amount was, no matter what activity causes the imposition of those taxes. So that would mean that the answer to this question:

Can the husband have had tax liability the prior without the self employed wife needing to pay estimated tax during the current year?

is yes.

Let me try to map this out.

Person A - filing single in 2012 - no liability; filing single in 2013 - needs to have $0 withheld for consideration of withholding in 2013.
Person B - filing single in 2012 - SE liability of some kind; filing single in 2013 - needs to have that liability withheld for consideration of withholding in 2013.

Persons A and B marry in 2013.
If MFJ - the withholding requirements which would otherwise be imposed on B would apply equally in half to both persons. There would be a procedure and Form available to separate liability if necessary.
If MFS - the withholding requirements apply as if Persons A and B are not married.

Persons C and D are married in 2012. They file separately in 2012.
Person C has zero tax liability.
Person D has SE tax liability.

If Persons C and D would have filed jointly in 2012, there wouldn't have been a case where their tax liabilities would have been different amounts. They would have been equally liable for half of the tax imposed on both.

In 2013, if each file MFS, Person C needs to have $0 withheld for 2013, and Person D needs to have the liability amount withheld for 2013.
In 2013, if they file MFJ, Persons C and D are equally liable for half of the SE tax liability withholding required on account of Person D. In this case, the payments made by Person D would usually be deemed made jointly by both Persons C and D, so that requirement would be fulfilled.

Again, this is just off the top of my head. Please try to restate the question somehow if I'm not giving a good answer. I'll need to conduct some research to make sure I have a full understanding of it or in case there's a stipluation I'm not aware of.