The Trump Presidency

**Fe 26** · 29 Mar 2018, 05:17 PM

Would you ban processed sugar if it would save 100 of thousands of lives? Probably half of the forum?

Or just ban chocolate and all icecreams. That alone would save a few 100 thousand.

What about just regulate them? One small sliver? 2 slivers and you and the chocolate provider are fined?

What is chocolate and cane sugar but a slow way to murder yourself? Sure, lots of people enjoy it but bah on that.

**kedawa** · 29 Mar 2018, 05:19 PM

When's the last time someone force fed another person enough ice cream to kill them?

**A Robot Bit Me** · 29 Mar 2018, 05:26 PM

You can still opt out of wearing a seat belt. Go sick, dude. Not everyone observes to that law, but it's clear that a heck of a lot do, and that because a heck of a lot do, seat belt laws are saving lives (the mandate on manufacturers and the mandate on wearing them).

You can opt out of an AR-15 (or anything) being banned. You could still get an illegal gun if you really want to. Just like I could probably find a nice can of lead paint to use today if I really wanted to. Both would require some work. And because the vast majority of gun violence is the result of aggravated, heat-of-the-moment response, that work is going to matter. That's the entire reason some states have waiting periods. Which states? Mostly the ones with the least firearm deaths.

By length of waiting period:

Hawaii. 14 days
California. 10 days
Rhode Island. 7 days.
Illinois. 1 day.

Rank in gun deaths per 100,000 with 50 having the least gun deaths:

Rhode Island: 49th
Hawaii: 47th
California: 43rd
Illinois: 34th

These are not crime-free utopias, either. California has the 8th most violent crime. Hawaii is middle of the road. Illinois is the 16th highest. Which suggests these places have a lot of criminals. Yet, somehow, their strict gun laws seem to be working.

It's almost like "criminals don't follow laws" is bullshit because it presumes a "criminal" is someone who follows no laws. Which means it presumes a "criminal" is someone who is always breaking every law, which you couldn't even do if you wanted. The person this axiom depends on doesn't exist. It's an impossible person. People, "criminals" included, follow some laws and break others. Same obviously goes for even violent criminals because there are plenty of violent criminals doing violent crimes in these states but not availing themselves to guns.

**Some Stupid Japanese Name** · 29 Mar 2018, 05:38 PM

I'd be completely fine with a ban on processed sugar.
Now what.

**A Robot Bit Me** · 29 Mar 2018, 05:40 PM

I don't know why I'm doing this because showing a correlation between regulation and safety isn't really the thing that's going to change your mind, even though you're suggesting it is. You think guns are cool. What I would have to change your mind about is not "guns more easily enable murders and that threat can be curbed with smart legislation," but "guns aren't that cool." I think that's really at the heart of all this. And nobody is ever going to convince anyone the thing they think is cool isn't.

There are bands and video games I thought were cool and no longer do. But none of those were results of someone else's reasoning. Nobody has ever really thought something was really cool and had their mind changed over the course of a conversation with someone who doesn't, I don't think.

**Satsuki** · 29 Mar 2018, 05:43 PM

I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out (Do try and keep up, Satsuki) but something like 3% of gun homicides are committed with legally acquired weapons. We have a way bigger issue with homicides that result from illegal acquired ones, and those are the ones no one wants to do anything about since 1. black people and 2. it's pretty difficult to regulate since it's black market transactions.

**A Robot Bit Me** · 29 Mar 2018, 05:54 PM

I would need to see a citation for that one...

But also, illegal guns were legal guns until they were illegal. That already means limits on legal guns are also limits on illegal guns. But more importantly, violent people getting guns from friends or family members or whatever, which is exactly why we need gun registries and other ways to keep owners of legal guns accountable like SSJN said. That I could buy a gun within the hour (not an exaggeration) and just hand it or sell it to someone is completely fucked. Doing that is not a crime in my state; I have zero culpability, which is part of why the gun violence in neighboring areas (hi, Chicago) is so bad.

Conservatives LOVE to say, "BUT CHICAGO!" Yes, but Chicago! Where 60% (that's the majority, mathguys) of guns recovered in violent crimes are traced back to neighboring states, most of which have super lax gun laws and no regulation over transferring guns between private parties as in the situation above. 20% come from Indiana, which has some of the laxest gun regulations in the country (and again, no oversight or accountability re: transfer of guns between parties). And these are just the guns used by the people getting caught...