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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    My only thing with Biden is I'm wondering is if he doesn't have Alzheimer's. My dad went thru that near the end of his life and seeing how he just goes off into a tangent sometimes makes me worry about the guy. I don't hate him but I really think there was a much better choice then him or Bernie.

    It's like he's so old I can't help but wonder if he should just retire already and let someone younger and more in touch with democratic voters step up to run vs Trump.
    It's sort of a wash, though. Trump seems to have dementia as well and can't hold a though or just spout straight up gibberish. He has a lot of energy and he manages to sell that, but I'm not convinced he's not just taking Adderall or something.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me View Post
    For the people who have decided to vote for Biden: what in Biden's record suggests he would be better than Trump? Asking with total sincerity and in good faith here. ... I'm not interested in "Nobody's perfect," or "He's not my first choice, but," or "Orange man bad." I'm interested in good things he has done and supported in the past that suggest good things he will do and support in the future.
    Well, sorry to disappoint. Trump represents every entitled shitbag I knew growing up, making my life miserable because I was poor and being even worse to marginalized people. A presidential vote doesn't really matter but since I can't punch him in the face, a vote against him is the only real, "fuck you, asshole," I have. You know how people like to reference Michael Moore's "molotov cocktail" quote? Same idea in reverse.

    But everything you listed is a bad faith argument, whether you intended that or not. Biden doesn't look at me & people like me and think I'm a loser. Trump thinks I'm a loser. He thinks you're a loser. Yes, you, ARBM and whoever is reading this. He thinks you're a loser, and if he could harm you in some way he would, be that physically or emotionally. Biden just wants to get back on track (whatever the fuck that means).

    - Why do you take it as given that the guy who voted to confirm Scalia and who infamously smeared Anita Hill in service of appointing Clarence Thomas will appoint someone any more progressive than, say, Kavanagh?
    He won't be given a list of assholes like Kavanaugh. That doesn't mean the list he's given will be full of Kagans and Sotomayors but it won't be as bad as any Trump picks.

    - Why do you think a guy who supported DOMA and opposed gay marriage until 2012 is going to be a champion of the marginalized?
    DOMA is old as fuck. It's "what about" bullshit. And, like all politicians, he goes by polls. He may have actually been against gay marriage/rights at some point but he came around much earlier than 2012 then waffled/lied until it was safe. Obama didn't change his mind when he said he did, he lied. I think, in his case, he was never against it, but whatever. That argument about privilege, while most frequently (and rightfully) employed against white people, goes for anyone powerful. "If I come out in favor of gay rights now in 1998 I'll risk losing things I like so I'll wait until the public opinion turns a little." I am very familiar with this behavior, so when I see the careful answers I get what is happening. By contrast, I also know fake support when I see it, and that is anything Trump says about marginalized people.

    - Why do you think the architect of the 2005 bankruptcy bill (which Elizabeth Warren built her career opposing) is going to be a champion of the middle class?
    Nobody's a champion of the middle class. I hate "both sides" bs as much as anyone else but the Democrats are just as interested in continuing the status quo as Republicans. Dems just want the cries to dismantle the system to be quieter, where Republicans actively want to punish those people for being ingrates.

    - Why do you think the chief proponent of the 1994 crime bill and who worked with segregationist senators to oppose bussing in the 70s and 80s is going to be a champion of minorities?
    More "what about" bullshit.

    - Why do you think the guy who bragged about seeking social security cuts to balance the budget is going to be better for the working class?
    "What about" plus the capitalism shit.

    -Why do you think a guy who recently implied he'd veto Medicare for All is going to be better for the working class?
    Polls. Most Americans literally don't understand M4A or whatever you want to call universal health care is what we need, and then they read/listen to bad takes. And, as before, he's no champion.

    - Why would a guy who advocated for the Iraq War (and recently said in an interview he supported it *because* he knew there were no WMD) be any less inclined toward foreign intervention?
    I was wrong, this one's a valid question Ė even if his words in the Newsweek interview are being willfully misinterpreted here, and even if his words in the Newsweek interview are an even dumber justification.

    - Why do you think a guy for whom being a Republican is no obstacle for being in his cabinet or even his running mate is going to oppose conservative policy rather than advance it?
    I don't. I don't care about him and I don't think he's going to win. But he's the highest-profile person running against and the largest tiny middle finger I can give. Local votes still matter somewhat but, like I said, a presidential vote doesn't. The only way to actually "fix" things is to revolt in a real way Ė and not cowards with hunting rifles standing around a government building. So if you come at it from the angle of a vote for president being a way to fix things, or undo the damage Trump has done, then Biden isn't a great choice.

    TLDR: He's not going to take care of what you think he's going to take care of but he isn't going to actively break the few good systems we have left.
    - calianaderderajhfjdjjdskk

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    For one he's a functioning human with the ability to collaborate with others. Two, he's going to fill the positions around him with capable, experienced people rather than rogues gallery of fringe lunatics and corrupt campaign donors. Three, he isn't going to make decisions based on a child-like understanding of what he saw on Tucker Carlson last night.

    No one here is arguing he's going to make a good president, but we shouldn't understate what a once-in-a-lifetime terrible president he is running against. I don't need a hero, I just need an adult.

    If Mitt Romney was on the fucking democratic ticket in November, I would vote for him too. I don't care. Just anyone who isn't Trump or a member of his death cult.
    I think if RBG is on her way out and the Dems can have that appointment itíd be much better since thatís a pretty long term decision.

    Iím not really convinced ppl know what tf theyíre saying when they throw the term ďbadĒ president is. Bush was literally Satan. Reagan was literally Saran. Obama and Clinton were soft willed. People are really mad at the system right now but itís proven even a man addicted autocratic thinking canít hold on to absolute power for too long. You people need to re-up Obamacare mostly. Biden might be a better candidate for that.
    Last edited by Drewbacca; 07 May 2020 at 10:44 AM.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Drewbacca View Post
    Most sane non-internet contrarians would expect there has to be a deliberateness to the actions that kill a group of people for something like this to warrant dropping big G in earnest. Soviets orchestrated Holodomor to increase power by removing Ukraine’s independence, and spread their ideology to the East. Stalin was a conqueror. Conquerors gonna conquer.
    This is my view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drewbacca View Post
    That being said I agree with applying the term here. Why should we be careful with a term that means thousands of people in a specific group die (elders) just because it’s due to incompetence rather than design? Trump certainly didn’t make adult leadership choices to minimize an environment where anti-science and propaganda-as-news which has only helped cause more deaths. It’s a genocide. Good term for it.
    Precisely because the word genocide describes killings that are by design and not incompetence. That's what genocide means. Years ago when crafting language we said "what should we call it when people purposefully kill a specific group of people in mass?" and someone said, lets call that a genocide. Going top shelf with your words all the time makes them lose all meaning. Calling anyone who kills anyone else a murderer, is wrong. People who commit murder are murders. People who commit manslaughter are not murders. If you are a bus driver, and you fall asleep behind the wheel and kill everyone on board you are not a serial killer, even though your body count might be higher.

    Is a guy with $900 Million crazy super ultra mega rich? Oh my god yeah. From my view point there's no difference between him and Bill Gates in terms of power and quality of life, no measurable difference anyway. They will both never worry about money. Is the guy with $900 Million a Billionaire? No. The word billionaire means you have billions of dollars, not a lot of dollars. We should maybe strive to not to be so hyperbolic with our word choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fe 26 View Post
    At some point it became deliberate.

    And we are nearing that with Trump. At some point, when he is alone, eating his chicken nuggets, he has to role a thought around and realize some of his decisions have gotten people killed. If he doubles down after that, it would be fair to call it genocide. If he still doesn't consciously know he's getting people killed, he's even dumber than we thought.
    This I agree with.

    Disbanding task forces and committees and handle pandemics in advance is retarded, but he could not have foreseen COVID-19 and he was not planning for it to happen years in the future. In January and February when he was downplaying the virus, he might have actually believed it wasn't a big deal, which again makes him dumb, but I don't think he was planning for this.

    If moving forward, he takes specific actions he knows will make this worse, and government goes along with it, because they figure trading 10% of our elderly for the economy is something they're willing to do, that would be genocide.

  5. #8915
    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    If moving forward, he takes specific actions he knows will make this worse, and government goes along with it, because they figure trading 10% of our elderly for the economy is something they're willing to do, that would be genocide.
    So, like, what's going on right now then?

  6. I don't know about your State, but you can't walk around your neighborhood without a face mask here, evictions are postponed, your power and electricity can't be shut off. I'm being paid 2k every two weeks from Unemployment insurance to stay the fuck home and not infect people. We have schools closed, restaurants closed except for pick up, all non essential retail is shut down entirely. Hospitals are being given State and Federal money to fund work against COVID-19, all testing and treatment for COVID-19 is completely covered under the CARES Act, which also dumped billions into research and treatment. Productions of respirators is up about 200% nationally. Student loans are suspended. People are being told to shelter in place.

    That's a lot of deliberate actions to try and fight this and saves lives.

    Like there are people marching on capital buildings fully armed because they think we're doing too much and then there's people here thinking so little is being done it must be a genocide, in reality it's something in the middle.

  7. #8917
    Those people marching are idiots that a russian troll working out of florida has tricked into risking their lives to decide the US and get americans killed.

    They do not represent natural pRt of american discourse.

  8. I mean, yeah, my state has reopened most businesses with restrictions, with the general public consensus being that they know they aren't going to be able to pay unemployment out to everyone for the next year. I don't know if they specifically said those words. So people are compelled to work, it's not like they can refuse and collect free money. I don't expect that whole situation to improve, and we're seeing estimates that daily deaths will double in our state before August.

    I refuse to believe that government leaders had no idea, but I don't know if it's more damning for them to have been ignorant or deliberately downplaying. I looked bad at my logs and I was talking with people about this on January 30th, and I don't actively seek out news. It was still low, but through February I was taking inventory for a month-long shelter-in-place. Then I did it and had to go back out before my government even made moves. My governor Kemp said on April 2nd that he didn't know it could be transmitted by asymptomatic people, when our country was hitting it's peak for daily new cases. If the only thing differentiation whether you want to call this a genocide or not is whether leadership is competent or not, I don't see a meaningful distinction in the results.
    Why are you reading this? go to your general settings and uncheck the Show Signatures box already!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    So, like, what's going on right now then?
    Fucking seriously.
    11% death rate for 65-85.

    No issue here though, everything is just totally hunky dory and normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by dechecho View Post
    Where am I anyway? - I only registered on here to post on this thread

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Calliander View Post
    It's a helpful way to describe the problem. And this doesn't just go for the portrayal of unspeakable acts like genocide. The people who are legitimately upset about their governors ordering shelter in place recognize this is some kind of "apocalypse" scenario but instead of a The Road landscape with them being able to justify shooting whomever they'd like and becoming the law, people are being courteous & helping & caring for one another. (Sorry, there are plenty of better references for shitty apocalypses, The Road just came to mind first.) They were expecting roving bands of people coming to take their shit (and let's be honest here ‚Äď they're projecting) and got people doing their best not to infect others.
    Good points all around. Media portrayals of emergency scenarios provide a cultural roadmap (pun!) of what a crisis SHOULD look like, in peopleís minds. Therefore, when we approach a scenario that Hollywood didnít prepare us for - the banality of staying at home and not being a furious armed avenger of freedom - many people donít really know how to respond. So they take the frustration and end up doing dumb ass things that approximate their idea of what a crisis looks like, suiting up in cosplay and endangering the public.
    Quote Originally Posted by dechecho View Post
    Where am I anyway? - I only registered on here to post on this thread

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