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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. The more I hear people say the 1%, the more I question the idea that anyone even knows what that is. Like, we can name every Kardashian, every dumb bit actor in Robocop, but most of the 1% we can't name. I don't doubt the existence of wealth inequality obviously but I was always a little ??? about this shadow group we've created as a society.
    Quote Originally Posted by dechecho View Post
    Where am I anyway? - I only registered on here to post on this thread

  2. Quote Originally Posted by YellerDog View Post
    There's always going to be a battle between perspective and humility, I'm not sure humility wins most of the time on any side. How do we override that? It's not 'let's just make sure everybody is humble', nobody can really steer the conversation like that. 'How to trip someone's empathy in a power imbalance' might be the right MO.
    I'm not sure if it's humbleness exactly. Empathy is important and we have an utter lack of it, but again, that's not really new or different. I think it's actually kind of the reverse of humbleness, we sort of have to be really vocal about people who are full of shit? Like "hey dude, you know nothing about this issue, maybe you should sit down." People who are going to bulldoze any conversation with their anecdotal nonsense can only be shut down by others, they'll never realize what they are doing is wrong. Ego is a trip, man. *bong rips*
    Quote Originally Posted by dechecho View Post
    Where am I anyway? - I only registered on here to post on this thread

  3. Ehhhhhh that doesn't work either. I've never known anybody to have an epiphany when they're told to 'sit down', it's mostly just boiling resentment and silently digging them further in to a viewpoint. Your ideas don't win, even if your hot snaps manage to shout down the conversation (temporarily). If the only way once side can win an argument is to entrench the other side further in to their position, I promise that will come back around in a much nastier way. You've got to make your ideas win, there's got to be a better way to frame these things that actually brings people around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Ramon View Post
    I don't even the rage I mean )#@($@IU_+FJ$(U#()IRFK)_#
    Quote Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name View Post
    I'm sure whatever Yeller wrote is fascinating!

  4. When I was in college, I ran with a group of like 17 people and only two of us were born in the USA. It was a great experience to meet people with such a spread of backgrounds, who were all not that different, really.

    I also learned how everyone hates everyone and how people can just live up to their stereotypes.
    Why are you reading this? go to your general settings and uncheck the Show Signatures box already!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by YellerDog View Post
    Ehhhhhh that doesn't work either. I've never known anybody to have an epiphany when they're told to 'sit down', it's mostly just boiling resentment and silently digging them further in to a viewpoint. Your ideas don't win, even if your hot snaps manage to shout down the conversation (temporarily). If the only way once side can win an argument is to entrench the other side further in to their position, I promise that will come back around in a much nastier way. You've got to make your ideas win, there's got to be a better way to frame these things that actually brings people around.
    I mean, we're seeing it play out irl right now - and yeah, it is making people more divided, but it is also bringing in new viewpoints to the forefront of the conversation. I think it's similar to the whole "nonviolent versus violent protest" argument. yeah, violent protest pisses a lot of people off and makes them hate "the other side." but it also makes people realize the plight of the other. I don't think there's a great easy peasy way to get the dominant type to give up their dominance, you have to chip away at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dechecho View Post
    Where am I anyway? - I only registered on here to post on this thread

  6. It's funny how this ties in with the Boogie2088 interview I just watched. He argued that both he and Sarkeesian want the same end result, except she's all in your face and doing exactly what Yellerdog described whereas he takes the boiled frog approach. Introduce change slowly so that you don't get the crazy reactionaries causing harm to those who aren't yet woke enough to accept change.

    It's really the same as the USA's fight for Independence and Canada's slower and less violent political maneuvering for independence.

  7. Is it better for some people to die in the short term to reach a goal or for some's suffering to slowly angle down, yet they still get to live, while society inches towards the goal.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    I mean, we're seeing it play out irl right now - and yeah, it is making people more divided, but it is also bringing in new viewpoints to the forefront of the conversation. I think it's similar to the whole "nonviolent versus violent protest" argument. yeah, violent protest pisses a lot of people off and makes them hate "the other side." but it also makes people realize the plight of the other. I don't think there's a great easy peasy way to get the dominant type to give up their dominance, you have to chip away at it.
    Everyone has the capability of being selfish and shitty and a bit of a bully, and that feedback loop is extremely contagious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name View Post
    It's funny how this ties in with the Boogie2088 interview I just watched. He argued that both he and Sarkeesian want the same end result, except she's all in your face and doing exactly what Yellerdog described whereas he takes the boiled frog approach. Introduce change slowly so that you don't get the crazy reactionaries causing harm to those who aren't yet woke enough to accept change.

    It's really the same as the USA's fight for Independence and Canada's slower and less violent political maneuvering for independence.
    To that point, we slapped this country together as fast as we could making whatever quick and ugly deals needed to be made, and the Civil War was a direct result. Slavery was a bad compromise to the South that might have be argued as necessary evil, but was it worth the long term damage? How much human wreckage are we cool with for whatever cause?
    Last edited by YellerDog; 22 Jun 2018 at 02:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Ramon View Post
    I don't even the rage I mean )#@($@IU_+FJ$(U#()IRFK)_#
    Quote Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name View Post
    I'm sure whatever Yeller wrote is fascinating!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by YellerDog View Post
    Ehhhhhh that doesn't work either. I've never known anybody to have an epiphany when they're told to 'sit down', it's mostly just boiling resentment and silently digging them further in to a viewpoint. Your ideas don't win, even if your hot snaps manage to shout down the conversation (temporarily). If the only way once side can win an argument is to entrench the other side further in to their position, I promise that will come back around in a much nastier way. You've got to make your ideas win, there's got to be a better way to frame these things that actually brings people around.
    It takes empathy. Think of the most vile person you can, then try to relate to them. If you can do that you can understand your political opponents better and frame your arguments in a way they can relate to.
    "Question the world man... I know the meaning of everything right now... it's like I can touch god." - bbobb the ggreatt

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    It takes empathy. Think of the most vile person you can, then try to relate to them. If you can do that you can understand your political opponents better and frame your arguments in a way they can relate to.
    That's the hope, I think. That's the only way you can really win and have it stick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Ramon View Post
    I don't even the rage I mean )#@($@IU_+FJ$(U#()IRFK)_#
    Quote Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name View Post
    I'm sure whatever Yeller wrote is fascinating!

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