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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Fe 26 View Post
    So you want to remain ignorant because your race feelings got hurt? That's what you're saying?
    You always miss what I'm saying and then just make up shit that you want me to be saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fe 26 View Post
    Lets get real man, black people make up like 13% of the population, yet by your own post, they make up 1/3 of deaths by cops. When adjusted, thats a higher % of black people vs white people.
    It's not even about the percentages, it's about the numbers. There are so few incidents, total, that a blanket statement like ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS and having 40 deaths, total, in a year of unarmed people after literally millions of encounters/incidents specifically refutes that narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fe 26 View Post
    Also, how do you feel about qualified immunity and police unions translating into you not having gun rights? That as it is today, we have special citizens that have more rights than you do?
    I don't like it, but I understand it. We live in a litigious society where everybody sues everybody for everything. Pull a hamstring while jaywalking because you were trying to avoid getting cited and, hey, sue the cops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fe 26 View Post
    Push all the politics, left vs right, black vs white to the side, and realize that is the world you live in right now. A country where you're a second class citizen, and a cop could murder you for a gun sized object, say a black cell phone or black flash light falling out of your car door when you get out to go inside a store and that guy will never be held accountable. You're family won't receive justice. He has the right to kill you because he felt scared.
    I think the last thing a cop wants to do is go out and shoot somebody on any given day. I'm all for reform, case review, conduct review, etc... and maybe the qualified immunity should be flushed down the toilet when death becomes part of the conversation. I'm not a legal scholar so I don't know the ramifications of this in its entirety.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    You're not really processing the substance of anything that I or the article said, and you're latching on to insanely irrelevant things like the racial makeup of the department (I literally referenced a black cop as my example in my last post) as a counterpoint because you simply aren't listening.
    I read the article and disagree with it. Just like I disagree with you. It doesn't mean I'm not listening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    The point here is that the "few bad actors" rhetoric fails to get at the realities of the systemic problem that create and protect these bad actors. That in order to address the problem you need to look at the whole of the system not just wait for people to get murdered and maybe maybe do something if the media gives it enough heat.

    So when people say "All Cops are Bastards" they don't mean they're all black hearted Nazis, but that they all participate in a broken system that needs to be rethought and rebuilt from the ground up. I'm not saying that we don't need police or that all police or that the mere act of being a cop is evil, but the problem is much bigger than just the worst examples and that's something a lot of people don't want to face.
    My problem with your arguments are pretty consistent - you take large groups of people, in this case police officers, and paint them with a broad brush and label them to suit a narrative. "People" didn't say "all cops are bastards". You did. You do the same thing with conservatives and think they all have to think the same way. It's a bullshit way to address an issue.

    There are many, many, MANY police officers who do their job professionally, with high standards, and a high level of competence that have to deal with shit that you can't even imagine and have to keep cool under pressure, diffuse situations, and seek positive outcomes. I'm sure they'd give you a funny look if you call them a "bastard" because of the system they're operating under - which varies widely in multitudes of jurisdictions. Maybe the answer is to have a national guideline that every police locality has to follow and, as I've said, I'm pro reform, training, and change.

    Honestly, just stop painting large swaths of people with a single brush. It's exactly the same as what you're criticizing.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    13% of the population and 50% of the violent crime. Probably closer to 6.5% since men are overwhelmingly more violent than women. Why on earth would that demographic be killed at a higher rate?

    Mystifying.

    96% of people killled by PoPo are men. Men are 49% of population. Men killed at unfair rate! Police r sexist!

    Umm-hmmmm.

    And this is where my comment that people used to get arrested for breaking the law comes in.

    This is two sides of street and the protestors are only trying to fix one side. Making police the enemy, culturally, just endangers people further in their encounters with the police. Follow instructions, know your rights, and fight another day when things are less likely to go sideways.

    And stuff like Floyd? They should be charged with murder and spend the rest of their lives in jail. An idiot that gets pulled over for a DWI, steals a cops gun, and shoots the cop and dies in the process? That's the other side of the street that we need to fix and address at a cultural level. A lot of cops are on more of an edge because people think it's cool to treat them like shit and not follow directions. As I said previously, the last thing 99.9% of cops want to do on any given day is have a reason to draw their weapon. Might not be popular to say right now but that doesn't make it wrong.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    My problem with your arguments are pretty consistent - you take large groups of people, in this case police officers, and paint them with a broad brush and label them to suit a narrative. "People" didn't say "all cops are bastards". You did. You do the same thing with conservatives and think they all have to think the same way. It's a bullshit way to address an issue.
    Are you just angry typing while reading the first sentence of what I'm saying? You're totally ignoring the entire argument.

    Framing the police problem as an issue of individuals is the thing I take issue with. Saying "all cops" is a way of saying that you don't fix a systemic or cultural problem by making it about individuals. And somehow you are still sitting over here going "I know a nice cop." I'm sure you do, it's not the fucking point, man. We have no idea how many "bad apples" there are because your "good apple" friends and everyone else are shielding them from accountability.

    Honestly, just stop painting large swaths of people with a single brush. It's exactly the same as what you're criticizing.
    You have no clue what I'm criticizing, dude. You're reading like every fourth sentence or something.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 02 Aug 2020 at 07:27 PM.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    13% of the population and 50% of the violent crime. Probably closer to 6.5% since men are overwhelmingly more violent than women. Why on earth would that demographic be killed at a higher rate?

    Mystifying.
    You’re like one sentence away from quoting the eugenics handbook.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    13% of the population and 50% of the violent crime. Probably closer to 6.5% since men are overwhelmingly more violent than women. Why on earth would that demographic be killed at a higher rate?

    Mystifying.

    96% of people killled by PoPo are men. Men are 49% of population. Men killed at unfair rate! Police r sexist!

    Umm-hmmmm.
    A pretty small percentage of either population is violent criminals, but only one is profiled as such.

    When you compare rates of offense relative to each other, that figure looks wildly different. 50% of murders are committed by black people according to FBI stats.

    But when you look at the percentage of each popution, this means 99.989% of black people didn't kill anyone and 99.994% of white people didn't kill anyone. In other words, the difference is about 1 out of every 10,000 people.

    And yet almost every black friend I have -- or at the very least the men -- has experienced some kind of intimidation, harassment, or violence from the police. For the crimes of one in ten thousand. Think about that.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 03 Aug 2020 at 12:39 AM.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Drewbacca View Post
    You’re like one sentence away from quoting the eugenics handbook.
    It's got much more to do with poverty than race.

    Unless stats are racist?

    Violence is overwhelmingly done by men. That aint sexist.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Drewbacca View Post
    The police has been an institution constantly slow to enact change to itself. It’s cronyism at its worst.

    You already defunded the police once. Would you rather an EMT or a cop show up if you’re having a heart attack? Because used to be cops. And they were bad at it. They didn’t really want to do the job and mortality rates were high.

    EMT units were created in response (which was also instigated by a black led initiative).

    So there you go. Fuck the police.
    I'm sorry this is dead wrong. You can't judge people like that. It makes you look like an ass.
    6-6-98 - 6-6-18 Happy 20th Anniversary TNL

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    It's got much more to do with poverty than race.

    Unless stats are racist?

    Violence is overwhelmingly done by men. That aint sexist.
    Conveniently ignoring my post above while still crying "muh statistics."

    Race is a poor basis to profile someone as a violent criminal. Statistically. But racial profiling has a hugely outsized impact in how police assess a situation. It's why a child playing like Tamir Rice is shot. It's why Eric Garner is killed for selling loosies. It's why George Floyd is murdered over a counterfeit $20. It's why Philando Castille is viewed as "threatening" for calmly complying. It's why Walkter Scott was shot in the back running away over late child support payments. It's why Amadou Diallo was shot 41 times for reaching for his wallet to identify himself.

    Race wasn't used to correctly profile these idividuals, nor were they killed as the result of involvement in violent crime irrespective of their race. Instead, their race was the reason the officers assessed an "elevated threat" that justified their killing, despite no violent crime taking place.

    Do you get it?
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 03 Aug 2020 at 12:46 PM.

  10. Yes. Race can’t be used to prejudice things I don’t like, but is absolutely correct when it applies to things I like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    One person of color commiting a crime doesn't make all people of color criminals. All people of color being criminals makes all people of color criminals. When hood-gang culture is rotten, so are the people that make them up.
    I liked when they wanted to ban any movie promoting violent cops. That was like when they wanted to ban gangster rap.


    EDIT: We can go the other way, if this will help relieve the cognitive dissonance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    One bad cop doesn't make all cops bastards. All cops being bastards makes all cops bastards. When institutions are rotten, so are the people that make them up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Occupation is a poor basis to profile someone as a bastard. Statistically. But occupational profiling has a hugely outsized impact in how the public assess a situation. It's why a woman working on her laptop in a coffee shop like Tina Griswold is shot with her partners Mark Renninger, Ronald Owens and Greg Richards. It's why John Hege and Mark Dunakin are killed for checking a driver's license on a traffic stop. It's why Timothy Brenton is murdered filing paperwork. It's why Lorne Ahrens, Michael Krol, Michael Smith, Brent Thompson, and Patricio Zamarripa were murdered protecting a peaceful protest.

    Occupation wasn't used to correctly profile these individuals, nor were they killed as the result of involvement in police brutality irrespective of their occupation. Instead, their occupation was the reason the black men assessed an "elevated threat" that justified their killing, despite no police brutality taking place.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lakewood_shooting
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_s...olice_officers
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Timothy_Brenton (also 2009)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_s...olice_officers
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 03 Aug 2020 at 01:44 PM.
    "Question the world man... I know the meaning of everything right now... it's like I can touch god." - bbobb the ggreatt

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