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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    Very nice. I'll just ignore you from this point forward as it's pretty clear that you can't have a conversation without resorting to high-school level insults in every post you make.
    Yeah this is why I think he's being an ass. Insulting people when you can't try to form a reasonable argument.
    6-6-98 - 6-6-18 Happy 20th Anniversary TNL

  2. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    The whole point I was trying to make is that Trump deserves to be criticized but it's not a level playing field. Look @ CNN's descriptions of Obama at Mount Rushmore in 2008 vs. Trump in 2020. The difference is positively astounding even if you aren't pro-Trump.
    I'll take a stab in the dark here and say that one was a well-written, well-delivered, inoffensive, and mildly inspiring speech that urged people of all beliefs and political persuasions to come together to work for the betterment of our nation, delivered in front of the kind of diverse coalition of people it described; The other was a rambling mess that took swipes at protestors and lefties and painted the more than half of the country urging more transparency and accountability from their government as ungrateful, unpatriotic agitators, delivered in front of a small sea of angry white sycophants. Why the fuck should the coverage of those two things be the same?

    This is emblematic of this "both sides" stuff you're always on. Maybe coverage isn't equal because the factors aren't actually equal. One player makes 20 errors per game and one makes one error every 20 games, but when anyone correctly says "Jeez, that one player is really shit," you wanna kvetch about how maybe the playing field is to blame and isolate one specific error from each player to analyze against each other on an individual basis. Then when you're called out on it, you say "Hey look, I think that player's shit too! I'm just asking questions!"

    Why? Why ask these questions constantly when you don't even actually disagree with the initial assessment?

    Look man, for someone that's clearly very concerned about being seen as an independent that's not beholden to either side, let me throw this out there: Almost every time you pop up in here or on an FB conversation, it unerringly begins with you arguing against or bemoaning a liberal viewpoint. Now credit where credit is due, somewhere in there you might agree with a point or two, you might throw shade at a conservative belief, but the fact that it nearly always begins with you devil's advocating against liberals... do you not see how that colors the perception that you seem to have chosen a side?

    Maybe every now and then, start out with what you agree on, then launch towards where you diverge, instead of going right into the invective against and then having to have it dragged out of you a couple posts later that you actually agreed with some things. And if you hate Trump, for god's sake, can you just commiserate with us about that a little bit without frantically looking around the room for some counterexample that marginally justifies him?
    Last edited by Bacon McShig; 05 Jul 2020 at 11:57 AM.

  3. Trump is getting desperate. He is grasping in straws by attacking anyone not on his bandwagon. He is not winning over anyone with his idiotic strategy on statues (who gives a crap) and protests and ignore real issues like unemployment/pandemic.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Bacon McShig View Post
    I'll take a stab in the dark here and say that one was a well-written, well-delivered, inoffensive, and mildly inspiring speech that urged people of all beliefs and political persuasions to come together to work for the betterment of our nation, delivered in front of the kind of diverse coalition of people it described; The other was a rambling mess that took swipes at protestors and lefties and painted the more than half of the country urging more transparency and accountability from their government as ungrateful, unpatriotic agitators, delivered in front of a small sea of angry white sycophants. Why the fuck should the coverage of those two things be the same?
    My apologies - I really wasn't talking about the speeches. Obama > Trump without question and it's not even close. CNN described Mount Rushmore as "majestic" when Obama went there and "two slave owners" when Trump was there. I was not at all clear about that and that's on me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon McShig View Post
    This is emblematic of this "both sides" stuff you're always on. Maybe coverage isn't equal because the factors aren't actually equal. One player makes 20 errors per game and one makes one error every 20 games, but when anyone correctly says "Jeez, that one player is really shit," you wanna kvetch about how maybe the playing field is to blame and isolate one specific error from each player to analyze against each other on an individual basis. Then when you're called out on it, you say "Hey look, I think that player's shit too! I'm just asking questions!"
    I think I've been pretty clear that Obama was a better President, by a lot, than Trump is. No question about that. Yes, you're right that Trump is worse and much worse. My questioning comes to the fore when situations are nearly identical and the coverage, and narrative, are completely different. Put it this way, I think there's a ton of stuff to be unhappy with about the Trump presidency without resorting to some of the stuff that I've seen over the past three years. I mean, outright lies by omission that has me to the point where I don't even want to watch the news, any news, anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon McShig View Post
    Look man, for someone that's clearly very concerned about being seen as an independent that's not beholden to either side, let me throw this out there: Almost every time you pop up in here or on an FB conversation, it unerringly begins with you arguing against or bemoaning a liberal viewpoint. Now credit where credit is due, somewhere in there you might agree with a point or two, you might throw shade at a conservative belief, but the fact that it nearly always begins with you devil's advocating against liberals... do you not see how that colors the perception that you seem to have chosen a side?

    Maybe every now and then, start out with what you agree on, then launch towards where you diverge, instead of going right into the invective against and then having to have it dragged out of you a couple posts later that you actually agreed with some things. And if you hate Trump, for god's sake, can you just commiserate with us about that a little bit without frantically looking around the room for some counterexample that marginally justifies him?
    I can see the point you're trying to make here. I mean, I could come here and just agree with everything but that wouldn't really lead to a whole lot of conversation, now would it? I think Trump's negatives are glaring enough that I don't have to put them out there in order to be viewed in a certain light. Every time the guy opens his mouth I think to myself that I probably would've said just about everything differently. I think some of his policies make sense. I thought some of Obama's policies made sense as well. I just feel like so much of the criticism is so over the top and partisan rhetoric driven that it makes me nuts. For example, when people start throwing out terms like "Nazi" I think that all historical perspective is lost.

    I think part of it is that there's a Republican in the White House and the media has been Trump-driven for nearly 3.5 years. I'd like to think that if a Democrat were being treated in a similar fashion that I'd equally have an issue with that. If Biden is President in 2 years and the right accuses him of being Putin's bitch, I'd like to think that I'd have an issue with that as well. There are so many things that are "Presidential Norms", shall we say, that I feel like are being brought to the forefront when much of it was never an issue with any President. Like I said, there's lots and LOTS of material to skewer Trump with over the past three+ years but some of the criticisms, to me, would be patently unfair to ANY President.

    And yes, I'm a registered voter with no party affiliation. I didn't vote for Trump. I believe in various Democratic issues - universal healthcare, pro choice, etc... Maybe it looks like I'm defending Trump but I'm actually question the process. I don't think I've posted much of anything Pro Trump here or on FB. I dislike the hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle.

  5. Years of accusations about being a secret muslim and a foreign fraud don't count, I guess?

    If the point you're trying to make is that MSNBCNN is more critical of Trump, that's fine, but if you think Obama wasn't under constant attack from the right wing media, then you weren't paying attention.

    I think everyone should realize by now that CNN is not, and has never been, a quality source of news.

  6. If Biden is president, fox will rail against him, the media will protect him and very suddenly, anonymous sources will be completely discounted.

    That's just how it be.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by kedawa View Post
    Years of accusations about being a secret muslim and a foreign fraud don't count, I guess?

    If the point you're trying to make is that MSNBCNN is more critical of Trump, that's fine, but if you think Obama wasn't under constant attack from the right wing media, then you weren't paying attention.

    I think everyone should realize by now that CNN is not, and has never been, a quality source of news.
    It counts - but I don't recall Obama being under assault every day, all day, by what's supposed to be "journalism" - and I'm talking the "big" media outlets - Fox/CNN/MSNBC etc... Fox and its talking heads (Hannity/O'Reilly/etc...) were decidedly anti-Obama but at least they weren't masquerading themselves as news but more as right opinion shows. That being said, I don't think there's any semblance of the "free press" left because they all rely on the latest disaster/coverup/flub/etc... for ratings and ad revenue. Everything is also so hyper-partisan these days that not only is there rarely any meaningful progress made for fear of making the other side "look good" (and the people pay the price) there's also a deliberate attempt (by both sides) to consistently mask the truth to suit narratives.

    If there's an unbiased news source out there, I'm all ears. I'm sick of all the usual cable news outlets.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    If Biden is president, fox will rail against him, the media will protect him and very suddenly, anonymous sources will be completely discounted.

    That's just how it be.

    Truth

  9. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    I can see the point you're trying to make here. I mean, I could come here and just agree with everything but that wouldn't really lead to a whole lot of conversation, now would it? I think Trump's negatives are glaring enough that I don't have to put them out there in order to be viewed in a certain light. Every time the guy opens his mouth I think to myself that I probably would've said just about everything differently. I think some of his policies make sense. I thought some of Obama's policies made sense as well. I just feel like so much of the criticism is so over the top and partisan rhetoric driven that it makes me nuts. For example, when people start throwing out terms like "Nazi" I think that all historical perspective is lost.

    I think part of it is that there's a Republican in the White House and the media has been Trump-driven for nearly 3.5 years. I'd like to think that if a Democrat were being treated in a similar fashion that I'd equally have an issue with that. If Biden is President in 2 years and the right accuses him of being Putin's bitch, I'd like to think that I'd have an issue with that as well. There are so many things that are "Presidential Norms", shall we say, that I feel like are being brought to the forefront when much of it was never an issue with any President. Like I said, there's lots and LOTS of material to skewer Trump with over the past three+ years but some of the criticisms, to me, would be patently unfair to ANY President.
    The whole 'presidential norms' thing wasn't so much of an issue with other presidents because they actually followed them. Every presidential candidate for the last 30+ years has provided their taxes as a show of transparency, Trump lied about them being tied up by the IRS and then said no one really wanted to see them anyway. Presidents have always gone to at least some show of effort to divest from businesses that could be perceived as a conflict of interest, Trump said "Turns out nothing explicitly says I have to, so thbbbft!" If you believe conservatives wouldn't have gone absolutely thermonuclear if Hillary had responded that way to those expectations, I've got a bridge to sell you.

    And that really underscores the point on errors I was trying to make earlier; It's not just about cherry-picking the foibles and viewing them in individual terms, sheer quantity is a factor, too. It's not just that Trump fucks up sometimes, it's that he fucks up CONSTANTLY. You say the news is always picking on him, well, of course they are when he's always providing new material. If a Dem had racked up the same numbers on dumbshit tweets and statements and went to as much effort to actively antagonize half the country as Trump does, the right would absolutely be losing their minds over it, and the coalition of liberals defending them would dwindle as the amount of these unforced errors piled up. I certainly couldn't defend all this were I on the other side of it. Hell, just go back to the beginning, if a Democrat would have taken the debate stage with kids from three marriages, all of which they had openly cheated in, and in the ensuing debates dumped on military families and praised himself for dodging taxes, you think that wouldn't have instantly cooked their goose to a charred crisp with voters from every walk? Trump just waltzes through that kind of nonstop shitshow with his party's seal of approval and then you want to caterwaul about how much Dems benefit from double standards and how unfair they're being? Come on man.
    Last edited by Bacon McShig; 05 Jul 2020 at 03:15 PM.

  10. The difference is party loyalty. A Democrat couldn't do half the shit Trump does because his party would either back down or resign, as they do for the dumbest shit. Republicans have marched like lemmings behind Trump through 3 years of fire, and even losing the House hasn't changed things. They will follow him in November either to victory or over a cliff. Democrats wouldn't stand behind a leader that long, good or bad. They back down far too easily, which is why McConnell always gets his way.

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