The Trump Presidency

[Andrew]

So is it that Russia tipped the election in that they actually hacked voter machines and altered vote tallies? Or is it that Russia tipped the election in leaking emails that showed how scummy Clinton's staff and the DNC were? Because the former would bother me a lot, while I couldn't give a shit if El Chapo leaked the latter.

[Bacon McShig]

Also, Bacon, the Democrats absolutely spread red panic regarding Russian hacking. During one of the debates Clinton implied the Wikileaks emails exposing her campaign getting questions in advance were Russian propaganda. It was everywhere.

Sure, but there's a world of difference between the statements 'We have suspicions they're attempting to influence the election' and 'The CIA delivered a report to everyone that expressed consensus that Russian influencers are actively working towards a Trump presidency.' That they had that in their back pocket and didn't divulge it when it would have mattered is absurd. Another victim of the "there's no way Hillary will lose!" head-in-sand syndrome, I suppose.

So is it that Russia tipped the election in that they actually hacked voter machines and altered vote tallies? Or is it that Russia tipped the election in leaking emails that showed how scummy Clinton's staff and the DNC were? Because the former would bother me a lot, while I couldn't give a shit if El Chapo leaked the latter.

I don't have a lot of love lost for the way Hillary ran her campaign, but you want transparency, you gotta want it from everyone. They undoubtedly have just as many e-mails that shine a light on Trump and the RNC's misdeeds. Russia doesn't just walk away now that they got the candidates they wanted, not when they're equipped with the blackmail to keep those guys moving to their tune. I'm sure that'll turn out well.

[Drewbacca]

Clinton won the majority vote by two points, and lost key states by a fraction of a percent. Almost ANYTHING could have cost her to the election, because she lost it by such a razor-thin margin.

Yeah, sure, there are much larger factors at work, but if you think those email hacks didn't amplify concerns about her personal email server enough to cost her a few thousand votes in Wisconsin and Michigan, I think you're in denial.

The problem is "majority votes" here is misleading when the entire dataset (voter turnout) was down. If she had been a lucrative candidate more voters would have turned out to sway the college in her favour. Considering the numbers Obama and Bush put up you can see how they were much better figureheads.

Then on top of that personality issue her campaign of "anyone but trump" didn't resound with anyone. I can't even recall one key policy of hers from the debates. This kind of campaign angle seldom works anywhere. Crack addict Toronto Mayor Rob Ford had a host of candidates campaigning on the same premise and he won in a landslide.

Turns out everyone knows politicians are slimy clumsey assholes. What is this slimy asshole going to do for me is the question that needs addressing here.

He's the executive producer. That just means he cashes a check. Let's pick out battles here.

Also, Bacon, the Democrats absolutely spread red panic regarding Russian hacking. During one of the debates Clinton implied the Wikileaks emails exposing her campaign getting questions in advance were Russian propaganda. It was everywhere.

I mean the focus on Russia trying to intervene is troublesome but you could argue if the info leaked was true then how could it not simply be chickens coming home to roost?

[Andrew]

What exactly did Russia allegedly expose, though? That Hillary and her inner circle are not very good people? That the media carries her water? That the DNC wished the primary to be a coronation ceremony for Her Royal Highness? None of this was earth-shattering to anyone who was even passively paying attention.

Democrats would do well to stop crying about Russia, Comey, meaningless popular vote metrics, etc., and focus on making sure that such a horrible candidate never, ever winds up the standard bearer for their party ever again. Losing to Trump could be a fluke. Losing Rust Belt states that haven't gone Republican since Reagan could be a fluke. But for both of those things to happen? That's not Comey. That's not Russia. That's a self-inflicted fuck-up.

[A Robot Bit Me]

I'm just happy we have so many Republicans in Congress now. Because they are champions of democracy, national security, vote integrity, and exposing the truth about the communications of our officials, we can rest easy knowing they'll do everything they can to continue this probe, right?

[Andrew]

I'm just happy we have so many Republicans in Congress now. Because they are champions of democracy, national security, vote integrity, and exposing the truth about the communications of our officials, we can rest easy knowing they'll do everything they can to continue this probe, right?

I don't think that's a likely way forward, ARBM. Equally shitty behavior would be a more realistic expectation.

[bbobb]

Is there something about libertarianism that makes you unable to recognize sarcasm?

[Fe 26]

Clinton won the majority vote by two points, and lost key states by a fraction of a percent. Almost ANYTHING could have cost her to the election, because she lost it by such a razor-thin margin.

Yeah, sure, there are much larger factors at work, but if you think those email hacks didn't amplify concerns about her personal email server enough to cost her a few thousand votes in Wisconsin and Michigan, I think you're in denial.

Yes, but in hindsight, it is probably her advisers that lost her the election. Doc posted a news blog report by someone that actually read through the whole case.

Hilary fucked up because she doesn't know how to use a computer. There wasn't a plot. Or evil mischief. Or even lies. She is a grandma. She knows how to like use one phone and nothing else.

She and her advisers felt it was better to just play the whole thing off as a nothing than to admit there is an area of her life that she is stupid.

[Fe 26]

Is there something about libertarianism that makes you unable to recognize sarcasm?

autism

[Fe 26]

would do well to stop crying about Russia

I think everyone would do well to pay more attention to Russia. They're winning. I hear their propaganda from plenty of well off Americans. Everyone should be concerned. Russia is shaping the beliefs of the alt right, main right, and hate groups. They seek to either have alt right conservatives elected that will pull American industry out of the global market under the guise of bringing jobs home. Or for the right to revolt and destroy the country from the inside. Or some mix of both.