The Trump Presidency

[Some Stupid Japanese Name]

I hope mass shooters are politically correct while on their murder sprees. I'd hate for anyone to die while feeling bad about themselves.

[Satsuki]

I would need to see a citation for that one...

But also, illegal guns were legal guns until they were illegal. That already means limits on legal guns are also limits on illegal guns. But more importantly, violent people getting guns from friends or family members or whatever, which is exactly why we need gun registries and other ways to keep owners of legal guns accountable like SSJN said. That I could buy a gun within the hour (not an exaggeration) and just hand it or sell it to someone is completely fucked. Doing that is not a crime in my state; I have zero culpability, which is part of why the gun violence in neighboring areas (hi, Chicago) is so bad.

Conservatives LOVE to say, "BUT CHICAGO!" Yes, but Chicago! Where 60% (that's the majority, mathguys) of guns recovered in violent crimes are traced back to neighboring states, most of which have super lax gun laws and no regulation over transferring guns between private parties as in the situation above. 20% come from Indiana, which has some of the laxest gun regulations in the country (and again, no oversight or accountability re: transfer of guns between parties). And these are just the guns used by the people getting caught...

http://www.socialmedicine.info/index...nload/852/1649

Ok I’ll admit, I can’t find the homicide specific stat so probably a professor made it up haha. My bad! Tho, it seems like a lot of them are obtained via burglary, rather than transfer. Would tracing help? Only the Shadow knows. But yeah, it would.

[kedawa]

The more I think about, the more I like the idea of eliminating gun crime without getting rid of the guns. Just think of how civil and kind a society would have to be to have everyone armed and not have people shoot each other. You would have the best mental health care in the world, gun safety classes in every school curricula, economically healthy inner cities, racial harmony, and a police force that had complete mastery of de-escalation and non-lethal force techniques.

[Some Stupid Japanese Name]

Pretty sure there’s an episode of Kino’s Journey that has a town like that, sort of.
The later Kino, not the original, better one.

[Calliander]

The more I think about, the more I like the idea of eliminating gun crime without getting rid of the guns. Just think of how civil and kind a society would have to be to have everyone armed and not have people shoot each other. You would have the best mental health care in the world, gun safety classes in every school curricula, economically healthy inner cities, racial harmony, and a police force that had complete mastery of de-escalation and non-lethal force techniques.

Prob should move this to the bong rips.

[Fe 26]

I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out (Do try and keep up, Satsuki) but something like 3% of gun homicides are committed with legally acquired weapons. We have a way bigger issue with homicides that result from illegal acquired ones, and those are the ones no one wants to do anything about since 1. black people and 2. it's pretty difficult to regulate since it's black market transactions.

I would need to see a citation for that one...

Guys...not to feed into Josh's current favorite meme, but Doc, bbobb, and I already did this. Oddly enough Sats is playing the part of the professor and ARBM is the jerk bbobb. Though admittedly, ARBM is just being extra facetious, and not militant. So bonus points for that.

[Fe 26]

You can still opt out of wearing a seat belt. Go sick, dude. Not everyone observes to that law, but it's clear that a heck of a lot do, and that because a heck of a lot do, seat belt laws are saving lives (the mandate on manufacturers and the mandate on wearing them).

You can opt out of an AR-15 (or anything) being banned. You could still get an illegal gun if you really want to. Just like I could probably find a nice can of lead paint to use today if I really wanted to. Both would require some work. And because the vast majority of gun violence is the result of aggravated, heat-of-the-moment response, that work is going to matter. That's the entire reason some states have waiting periods. Which states? Mostly the ones with the least firearm deaths.

You know this is silly. If you are still accountable to the law, you aren't really opting out.

[Fe 26]

I don't know why I'm doing this because showing a correlation between regulation and safety isn't really the thing that's going to change your mind, even though you're suggesting it is. You think guns are cool. What I would have to change your mind about is not "guns more easily enable murders and that threat can be curbed with smart legislation," but "guns aren't that cool." I think that's really at the heart of all this. And nobody is ever going to convince anyone the thing they think is cool isn't.

There are bands and video games I thought were cool and no longer do. But none of those were results of someone else's reasoning. Nobody has ever really thought something was really cool and had their mind changed over the course of a conversation with someone who doesn't, I don't think.

Meh, I'm fine with all states having longer wait times. And Doc's suggestion of a greater effort to go after straw purchases and holding people accountable for their gun. If they buy a gun and register it in their name and give it to their nutjob kid and he blasts 5 kids at school, hit him with manslaughter for all 5 kids. I don't give a shit about laws around the guns as long as they aren't obnoxious. If I can fly out to California, and go target shooting with Yeller or if when I'm old and I open a tank ranch and I can let people shoot historic guns, I'm good. If I have to wait 10 days to get them, whatever. If I have to report guns stolen from the tank ranch or risk liability, whatever.

Now, if I'm 80, and I have to destroy all the guns in the display at the tank ranch because people in California are scared of guns, I'm going to be unhappy. Or if I have to drill them all out and can no longer fire them is live demonstrations, I'm going to be unhappy.

[Fe 26]

Related but I hit on a bigger problem with this debate than what we're talking about here: republican representatives completely eroding any faith conservatives have in the government to do anything.

I talked about doc's simple idea with a friend at lunch and he was just about aghast. That was just a horrible idea. "Its not fair to punish someone for the actions of the other. If they didn't do it, they didn't do it. Someone would have to judge it and the government makes everything worse."

[Doc Holliday]

"Its not fair to punish someone for the actions of the other. If they didn't do it, they didn't do it. Someone would have to judge it and the government makes everything worse."

If you purchase a weapon and you can’t be responsible enough to keep up with it, you’re largely responsible for whatever crime is committed with it.

EDIT: If you don’t report a stolen gun in 24h, whatever crimes are committed with it you should be an accomplice.

This is irresponsible.

But more than 40 percent of those stolen guns weren't reported by the owners as stolen until after police contacted them when the gun was used in a crime.

One of the more concerning findings in the study was that for the majority of guns recovered (62 percent), "the place where the owner lost possession of the firearm was unknown."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-about-crime/