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Thread: The Last of Us Part II (PS4)

  1. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    Make a game that's entirely story and make the story more better.

    Yeah that's the criticism.

    Story is not a great story and it's not told well.

    Thats the bulk of the game. It should be criticized.
    That's not a criticism.

    Ellie was lied to by the fireflies. She was lied to by joel. One actually saved her rather than killed her.
    Those selfish assholes trying to save the lives of millions and revive the world.

    The ignorant can't have their "agency" stolen.
    Did she get to make the choice? No? Then I guess she had her agency stolen. Turns out she was pretty salty about that when she found out.

    Joel was an asshole. He killed a ton of innocent people and doomed countless more to save someone who would have given her life had she been asked.

    And that's not a criticism, that's the thing that gives the ending its narrative heft. It might have been lost on you and that's why you might have mistook it for something dumber and happier but it's there.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 07 Jul 2020 at 03:01 PM.

  2. Fireflies lied to both Ellie and Joel from the start. Joel only took the job so he could get double the amount of weapons after the Firefly stole the weapons. Fireflies did not tell ellie that it would kill her to operate on her.

    If she wanted Agency they would have been the ones to give it.

    The fireflies were assholes and they had no intention of saving the world their sole intention was to get the a cure. They were not going to turn altruistic after doing so.

    That's the point. No good guys. Just people making hard choices.

    If joel knew it was a homicide mission he would not have taken her, but thats the great story. Joel did the best he could under the circumstances.

    Not a great dude but understandable.

    The first abby flashback tells all you need to know as to why she does what she does. The rest is trying to humanize or get the player to empathize with her after the fact.

    If that's the route to go there are better and simpler ways to get there that would enhance rather than detract from the story.

    That's why it isn't great.

    Just as if joels first level from 1 tacked onto right after he finds out what the fireflies are going to do to ellie would have made the story weaker.

    Method enchances or detracts from story and, putting aside the weaker aspects of the story, it isn't good.

    A person can be ugly with a great personality, pretty with a great personality, or pretty with an ugly personality and make do.

    No one makes it being ugly and having a shit personality.

    Just as a weak story and weak method do no work.

    Such is TLOU2.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    Fireflies lied to both Ellie and Joel from the start. Joel only took the job so he could get double the amount of weapons after the Firefly stole the weapons. Fireflies did not tell ellie that it would kill her to operate on her.

    If she wanted Agency they would have been the ones to give it.
    Except literally the entire game was Joel and Ellie putting their lives on the line because the cure was more important than their lives. Ellie wasn't given the choice in that moment but she had already made it. And Joel knew that. And that's why he lied.

    The first abby flashback tells all you need to know as to why she does what she does.
    If you mean the thing she does in the first act then yeah, no shit. It's literally the only one of her flashbacksthat even pertains to it. Do you think the only purpose of all of Abby's sections is to explain her initial motive?

    The rest is trying to humanize or get the player to empathize with her after the fact.
    The rest is about giving her a growth arc in the aftermath of the event, to show how she's a different person by the time they meet again and not just this Macguffin for Ellie's revenge plot. It also serves to humanize supporting characters like Mel, Owen, and Nora, so we have to question Ellie's actions.

    If that's the route to go there are better and simpler ways to get there that would enhance rather than detract from the story.
    Such as? What would you do that would make those moments land harder without taking away from the intent and themes?
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 07 Jul 2020 at 07:16 PM.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Angry Joe nails it. Spoilers abound!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-sTlYUeT8o
    This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life.

    1. He has clearly spoiled himself before hand. It's apparent from his reactions, but also there's video of him screaming about how he doesn't even want to play it anymore from a month ago. So he not only can't actually experience the story as intended, but he's going into it wanting to hate it.

    2. All of his complaints are just "I wanted to do cool fun stuff with my friends from the first game, I don't WANT new characters, and I don't want bad things to happen!" which I'm sorry is a fucking baby tantrum, not a criticism. He isn't saying why this doesn't work or how it's flawed so much as that it just isn't the thing he wanted. He sounds like a toddler.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life.

    1. He has clearly spoiled himself before hand. It's apparent from his reactions, but also there's video of him screaming about how he doesn't even want to play it anymore from a month ago. So he not only can't actually experience the story as intended, but he's going into it wanting to hate it.

    2. All of his complaints are just "I wanted to do cool fun stuff with my friends from the first game, I don't WANT new characters, and I don't want bad things to happen!" which I'm sorry is a fucking baby tantrum, not a criticism. He isn't saying why this doesn't work or how it's flawed so much as that it just isn't the thing he wanted. He sounds like a toddler.
    Joe praised the gameplay using Abby. She was the character he most enjoyed going into a fight with.

    I doubt you actually watched all 48 plus minutes of the video, before coming to that conclusion. When I 1st saw Joe, I thought that his show was just goofy skits with little substance. But, after watching some of his reviews of games that I'd enjoyed, I realized that he actually goes into more depth on something he says within a game review, while others just move along and never break it down.. He doesn't just spew out a 10 minute fluff videos with a bunch of praise and little substance. Just him pointing out how many times Ellie should have been killed in the game, exposes one of the many reasons why people think it is poorly written.
    Last edited by gamevet; 07 Jul 2020 at 09:11 PM.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Joe praised the gameplay using Abby. She was the character he most enjoyed going into a fight with. I doubt you actually watched all 48 plus minutes of the video before coming to that conclusion. When I 1st saw Joe, I thought that his show was just goofy skits with little substance. But, after watching some of reviews of games that I enjoyed, I realized that he actually goes into more depth about why he says something about a game. He doesn't just spew out a 10 minute fluff video with a bunch of praise and little substance. Just him pointing out how many times Ellie should have been killed in the game, exposes just how poorly written it is.
    It isn't the skits or the persona. I know who Angry Joe is and what he does I have seen many of his videos before. He sounds like a fucking idiot in this one. He openly went into it having both spoiled the plot and deciding he hated it before ever playing it. Those are just facts. He's an idiot.

    I made it through about 20 minutes and had to turn it off. His points are genuinely child-like.

  7. They have another video where all 3 of them go into a full discussion about the review (without any of the antics) and they all came to the same conclusion and gave it a 6/10.

    A dude that literally almost gets killed and is standing over Ellie without killing her is just stupid. Nobody does that stupid shit when their life is in danger, especially in that world. Oh, don't even get me started on Tommy.
    Last edited by gamevet; 07 Jul 2020 at 09:20 PM.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    Fireflies lied to both Ellie and Joel from the start. Joel only took the job so he could get double the amount of weapons after the Firefly stole the weapons. Fireflies did not tell ellie that it would kill her to operate on her.
    Because they didn’t know until she got there and they did the initial tests. Did you miss the cutscene with Marlene and Dr. Abby’sdad? This was new information they were wrestling with. And no, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a retcon either - I remember finding a journal or audiolog or something in the hospital in the first game where Marlene talks about this unexpected dilemma and how anguished she is by it. (But I’ll admit I could be wrong about that, it’s been a minute since I last played the first one and human memory is way more fallible than most people think.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gohron View Post
    I like doing stuff with animals and kids

  9. Chicken

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    They have another video where all 3 of them go into a full discussion about the review (without any of the antics) and they all came to the same conclusion and gave it a 6/10.

    A dude that literally almost gets killed and is standing over Ellie without killing her is just stupid. Nobody does that stupid shit when their life is in danger, especially in that world. Oh, don't even get me started on Tommy.
    And Joe and one other person are now perma-banned from Resetera for allegations which funny enough was retracted and "Bigoted" remarks. Have an opinion about a game that the hive mind doesn't agree with and yeah.
    I mean I don't see it as a problem seeing as that site if a god damn cesspool.
    Last edited by BonusKun; 08 Jul 2020 at 12:05 AM.
    6-6-98 - 6-6-18 Happy 20th Anniversary TNL

  10. Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    They have another video where all 3 of them go into a full discussion about the review (without any of the antics) and they all came to the same conclusion and gave it a 6/10.

    A dude that literally almost gets killed and is standing over Ellie without killing her is just stupid. Nobody does that stupid shit when their life is in danger, especially in that world. Oh, don't even get me started on Tommy.
    I know, dude, but they sound like a bunch of drunk bros who have zero understanding of the thing they're playing. They come off abjectly stupid, and dug in on the idea that it's different than what they thought it would be, but utterly closed minded to any kind of fair assessment of what it actually is. They're morons.

    That doesn't mean everyone that doesn't like it is a moron. I have said over and over it's not for everyone, it's not fun, and there were moments where I really found it taxing to get through. There are plenty of reasons why you might not enjoy this game, but the specific complaints they are voicing come off really dumb.

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