Super Mario Odyssey (NS)

[Metal Slime]

I think a lot of people are out of their damned minds with the revisionist Sunshine hate stuff (Oh yeah, you really hated on Sunshine back in 2003 or whatever).

What?? You've got it in reverse, Sunshine's praise and adoration is revisionist and largely YouTube era nostalgia. There's also people who have fond memories of Yoshi's Story, doesn't mean it's not a disappointing sequel let alone not even remotely on par with Yoshi's Island (or Woolly World, best sequel in the series and super polished, so glad Good Feel has the reigns to the series now instead of Artoon/Arzest). I didn't hate Sunshine in 2002/03 but I was still very disappointed with it to the point I thought Nintendo had no interest in capturing what made 2D Mario games fun in a 3D environment. GameCube was a dark time for me as a Mario fan, I find it bizarre that people lionize both Sunshine and the GC era now. If it weren't for Metroid Prime I would have had little interest in my GC first party title wise as the droughts were almost as bad as N64 and Wind Walker was also disappointing until WW HD corrected quite a few of its issues.

I think it's really hard to hate on Sunshine because it's still in the top 5 of 3D platformer games of all time. I think it's biggest failure is that 1) it was a followup to Super Mario 64 and 2) It wasn't a GameCube launch title.

Years later... Super Mario Galaxy came along and improved on issues that Sunshine had (mainly camera), but I don't think that makes Sunshine a worse game.

Galaxy wasn't trying to "improve on Sunshine," Galaxy (and especially 3D Land and 3D World) was Nintendo telling you once again that they can make amazing action games in 3D and trying to distance themselves as far as they could from Sunshine's rushed and poorly executed formula. Galaxy saved 3D Mario games, Sunshine almost destroyed them. And to put it in the top 5 3D platformers of all time? Seriously? It can't even make the top 5 of any general Nintendo game list. The game is too short, levels have too many chores and not enough action or platforming (why on earth should I care about scaling the giant tree in Pianta Village when there are no enemies to challenge me on the branches or the clouds? Yay, I get to rocket all the way back up a big empty tree again for the 100th time. Or I can explore the barren village area and do more Fludd or collection chores, yawn. Just one random example), use of Yoshi is too limited and feels very tacked on, Blue coins are a lazy, tedious abomination (and I got every single one of them), the Fludd-less levels are far better than the actual main quest and make the main stages look like a joke in comparison, I could go on. I'm not begrudging anyone for liking the game and having fond memories of playing it, to each their own. But as someone who was thoroughly underwhelmed by this game 15 years ago I find the obsession people have with it over the Galaxy/3DL/3DW series just because those aren't sandbox titles baffling. Nintendo had 6 years to make a proper Mario 64 sequel, instead they rushed Sunshine out in a short, 18 month dev cycle which is very evident from the game's aforementioned flaws and overall lack of polish. I also highly recommend the recent Retronaughts episode on Sunshine, great listen.

[Some Stupid Japanese Name]

You had me right up to that last sentence and now I have to question everything that came before it.

[Metal Slime]

You had me right up to that last sentence and now I have to question everything that came before it.

Seriously? I went into detail in my reply over my 15 years of Sunshine baggage and the Retronaughts episode is just a nice sidepoint and helps invalidate folks who think the fact Sunshine is divisive is a niche opinion which it obviously isn't.

[Some Stupid Japanese Name]

No, not seriously. Your post was very insightful.
I’ve just come to loathe retronauts, but broken clocks and all.

[Metal Slime]

No, not seriously. Your post was very insightful.
I’ve just come to loathe retronauts, but broken clocks and all.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying. And yeah, Retronaughts is far from perfect.

[Hero]

I really like this design direction as opposed to the 3D Land/World approach. Making a game that's designed around 2D precision but giving you the unreliability of 3D movement will never replace 2D platforming. Odyssey goes the other direction, creating 3D platforming that's fun to do in places that are fun to explore, and offsets its own tougher challenges with minimal punishments. It basically has 'baby mode' baked in because 3D platforming is a wonky affair even with the best controls, character movement, etc. (which is another thing Odyssey has) So it's never too annoying to fail at a tough challenge over and over because a) you barely lose any progress for it and b) if you get too pissed, there's literally hundreds of other things waiting to be done.

[Some Stupid Japanese Name]

I’ve died dozens of times by trying to reach places I probably shouldnt try to reach. It scratches the itch as Zelda’s stamina meter. But if I were losing lives/significant game wrold progress then I’d be playing far more conservatively and having far less fun.

[Some Stupid Japanese Name]

I really wish the edit function wasn’t borked so I could fix my posts!

[Hero]

Same here!

I think Odyssey's approach fixes the problem inherent to all 3D platforming. If even the best controls can fuck up because you were off 1 degree on the stick, or didn't judge the distance right, or didn't line up the camera for the optimal view of the jump, AND you're working against a game over/getting pushed back to a distant checkpoint, it makes all the sense to play it safe. Losing 10 coins is nothing - so much so I'm already trying all the insane stuff I've seen speed runners try out. I die a whole lot, but trying is a big jump for me from past 3D platformers.

[RoleTroll]

So this game is like a cross between Mario 64 and Sunshine, except it’s fun?