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Thread: Zelda: ALTTP Randomizer (and other Randomizers)

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mzo View Post
    I don't have enough time to play all the real designed games I own, let alone this bullshit.
    Sure I hear you, but you should still try something out. Some of the randomizers seem a lot less interesting (Mario shuffling levels...don't add or remove any challenge really) than others. Something like Mega Man randomizer is like....eh. The neat thing about Zelda is how much on-the-fly thinking concerning routing and using your items in unique and interesting ways you never would in the vanilla game that goes on.

    I have several points:
    1) Old good games are still really good and a lot of them are still worth playing.
    2) A lot of new games aren't that great so who cares if you put them off a bit.
    3) There is still design involved in the randomizers.
    Pete DeBoer's Tie
    There are no rules, only consequences.

  2. I'd love to see something like this for 3D Zelda games.

  3. #13
    I really like LTTP but I also have no interest in these. It seems like you'd have to learn some arbitrary rules to really enjoy it.

    I feel similarly about speed runs in general, they're fun and I respect the crazy effort/skill required, but it's not for me.
    John / JohnNiner / Niner

  4. #14
    Give one a shot and see if you enjoy it. It's not like playing a speedrun at all since every time you go through it's different. I mean, at this point I've played like 50 so there is some memorization for segments but every time I play I encounter new situations and have to tackle things differently...which is the opposite of a regular speedrun. I run a stream and shit so it's way more entertaining for the people watching for me to "speedrun" these but I'd have just as much fun doing them with no timer, and when I started I didn't use one at all. I personally like the pressure of the clock and the race environment because the challenge of quickly reacting on the fly to stuff you've never encountered before under pressure is a lot of fun, but you don't need to time yourself or speedrun it to enjoy the challenge.

    For example the other day in a race I had to figure out how to get into Hera basement with no bomb activators....and last night I used early silver arrows to crush the Hyrule Castle tower climb. There are lots of opportunities to use items in ways you never had the chance to before. Like, the ice rod is a really surprisingly versatile weapon that you never really have a chance to use in the base game. Like, you can kill the armos knights with the blue cane! Which I had to do in Ganon's Tower to get to the big key while saving the four arrows I had left.

    You don't have to learn any arbitrary rules either. The way the randomizer works means you always have a path to an item that will unlock a new area, allowing progress until you can beat the game, though it might not be immediately obvious where you have to go or what you have to do. The game won't force you to go into any darkrooms or do any crazy bomb jumps or anything like that, though those are timesaves available to racers. You can complete a randomizer with your basic knowledge of the original game but it will probably be difficult and challenging OR you pull the butter sword and red mail in ten minutes and it's a cakewalk LOL. Sometimes you won't have a sword for a VERY long time.

    If you aren't interested in the speed aspect of it I'd try to complete one WITHOUT using a tracker, and just try to figure out where you can get to and what you can do on your own and in your own time.
    If you like LTTP I seriously urge you to give it a shot. It's fairly addictive and challenging in a way that playing through your old cartridge would not be.

    A lot of the thrill comes from never knowing what's going to be in the next chest....which is also the opposite of a vanilla playthrough or speedrun.
    Last edited by Cowutopia; 12 Mar 2018 at 06:41 PM.
    Pete DeBoer's Tie
    There are no rules, only consequences.

  5. #15
    Like, it's just frustrating to hear that anyone would avoid trying one of these because they hate speedruns or the idea of speedruns....it's not really the heart of the randomizer at all. I time myself for entertainment value and because I personally want to enter some official races, but that doesn't mean you have to!

    It's like this:

    Imagine a world where people took LTTP and turned it into a roguelike. Wouldn't you want to try that shit?!
    Last edited by Cowutopia; 12 Mar 2018 at 06:50 PM.
    Pete DeBoer's Tie
    There are no rules, only consequences.

  6. #16
    I appreciate the response.

    The few posts of people here talking about their experiences were in a 'speed run' context, so naturally I expected the main draw of these is to be able to quickly get your bearings, show your mastery of the game's systems/map with whatever limited pool of items you get, rush through a checklist of required things and beat the game. And honestly that seems like it is the only way to add some type of universal goal to these.

    A bit more general, but I like the idea that the game I play is the same as everyone else's. It makes games a little more of a shared experience to me. I also like setting out to see what a game designers goal was in creating a game, and exploring everything I can. Randomizing things sort of takes away the lure of those. I'm ambivalent to almost all mods because of this also.

    I'm going to try and give one of these a shot, but I doubt I'm the target audience is all. Thanks for the link up front!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowutopia View Post
    You don't have to learn any arbitrary rules either. The way the randomizer works means you always have a path to an item that will unlock a new area, allowing progress until you can beat the game, though it might not be immediately obvious where you have to go or what you have to do. The game won't force you to go into any darkrooms or do any crazy bomb jumps or anything like that, though those are timesaves available to racers. You can complete a randomizer with your basic knowledge of the original game but it will probably be difficult and challenging OR you pull the butter sword and red mail in ten minutes and it's a cakewalk LOL. Sometimes you won't have a sword for a VERY long time.
    This is sort of what I meant by arbitrary rules, and this is more interesting to me initially than just playing through. How does the randomizer make sure you are always able to proceed and not put you in unwinnable situations? Does this work especially well with LTTP because the items in general are all useful and the map is very open? Is this designed to always require all areas to be accessed somehow? These are more hypothetical questions, so please don't answer, I'll try to figure it out.
    Last edited by Darmonde; 13 Mar 2018 at 10:28 AM.
    John / JohnNiner / Niner

  7. I read an article somewhere that explained in detail. If I come across it again, I'll post a link.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Cowutopia View Post
    Imagine a world where people took LTTP and turned it into a roguelike. Wouldn't you want to try that shit?!
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Ramon View Post
    I don't even the rage I mean )#@($@IU_+FJ$(U#()IRFK)_#
    Quote Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name View Post
    I'm sure whatever Yeller wrote is fascinating!

  9. Eh, it's not much different from a Second Quest. If you've played the game already and you're good at it, then try the randomizer and see what you can do with limited items. I like the idea, but I haven't played LTTP in a while, so I'd probably play that first and I'm not sure if I'd want to keep playing after I got through that.
    Why are you reading this? go to your general settings and uncheck the Show Signatures box already!

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmonde View Post


    This is sort of what I meant by arbitrary rules, and this is more interesting to me initially than just playing through. How does the randomizer make sure you are always able to proceed and not put you in unwinnable situations? Does this work especially well with LTTP because the items in general are all useful and the map is very open? Is this designed to always require all areas to be accessed somehow? These are more hypothetical questions, so please don't answer, I'll try to figure it out.
    The only thing I would tell you up front that you might not realize is that the boots give you access to a couple locations that are usually hookshot required, namely the first chest in the cave at the top of dark death mountain and also the dark dungeon where desert palace is (misery mire)

    Yeah, it's kinda like second quest...but different every time!

    The randomizer has been specifically designed (and updated and updated and updated) to ensure that you can't get locked out of finishing.
    Pete DeBoer's Tie
    There are no rules, only consequences.

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