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Thread: When Do We Consider a Criminal's Debt Paid?

  1. When Do We Consider a Criminal's Debt Paid?

    I've thought a lot about this lately, and it keeps coming up in various situations. Someone performs a crime, gets caught and sentenced, performs whatever action necessary to atone, and...then what? Seems like the slate should be wiped clean, but it never really is. That person will forever be judged and deprived of everything from privacy to access to decent jobs, neighborhoods, etc. How many stories are there of criminals getting out of jail, only to go back to crime because no one will hire former criminals?

    This seems very hypocritical no matter which side of the Purpose of the Penal System debate you back. If a person is punished and serves time, shouldn't the punishment end when the time is served? If a person is rehabilitated, shouldn't society forgive and forget once the rehabilitation period has ended?

    The latest thing in the news is Steven Wilder getting removed from The Predator (omg easy jokes). If we're so worried about being associated with kid touchers and we don't want them around us or our children- thus more or less stating such behavior can't be "cured," then why do we even let them back into society? Seems like the more moral act would be to just execute them.

  2. It because our penal system isn't based on reform - it's about vengeance.
    Boo, Hiss.

  3. I agree with you in principle, and in my line of work I come across this issue quite frequently. I haven't seen The Predator yet, and even if I had I wouldn't have seen the scene with Striegel in question that was cut out obviously. But the circumstances of it seem kind of questionable. Striegel wasn't just playing an extra, he was apparently playing a guy who was sexually harrassing Olivia Munn's character. According to Munn, she and the rest of the cast didn't know about Striegel's criminal history when Black cast him in that role.

    Why the hell would Black write that scene? And why would he cast Striegel in that role? And then why, as a director, would he not even think to tell his cast members about Striegel's history?

    As a director, your job is to gain the trust of your actors. Doing something like this is basically violating their trust on multiple levels.

    I'm a criminal defense attorney so I know all about giving people second chances but this whole story seems pretty dumb and from what I've read, it looks like Black made a very poor judgment call.
    The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure it is always right. -Learned Hand

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  4. #4
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    Well there is the government that will set a clear term for how a debt is paid and if a mark is permament, but it comes down to every person's point of view, doesn't it? Some people will forgive a kid toucher after a verbal apology, while others will avoid them forever and blackball them.

    The question I have is how do we reconcile the common man's sense of justice with the government so that the government's definition can overlap with most people, and is there a way that we can support a rehabilitation for these people in the first place?
    Why are you reading this? go to your general settings and uncheck the Show Signatures box already!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by icarusfall View Post
    It because our penal system isn't based on reform - it's about vengeance.
    Yeah, it's 100% this.

  6. Ok, so even if it's vengeance there has to be a point at which vengeance has been served.
    So why do we continue to punish people after that point.

    To Sleeve's point, is there some correlation between kid touching and sexual harassment? Between real life and playing a role? Is there some social contract that someone who made a mistake needs to have that mistake follow them the rest of their life? That brings me back to the point of just offing the person. Maybe Shane Black threw this guy a small role and didn't tell anyone about his past because not even Trader Joe's would give the dude a job. How well do you think it would go over if Shane did tell everyone, "hey, this is my friend. He tried to fuck a 14 year old. Action!" Did the dude harass Munn off camera? If he did no wrong during the shoot, why is he being punished as if he did?

    How about every time you're pulled over for speeding, you have to tell the officer about every speeding ticket you've ever received (assuming they don't have this info at hand when they run your license. Doesn't that stuff drop off your record after so many years?) How many people would be happy to do that?
    Last edited by Some Stupid Japanese Name; 20 Sep 2018 at 12:48 PM.

  7. We really like having an Other.

  8. The whole concept of criminals owing a debt to society is silly, and the idea that rotting in a cell somehow pays that debt is just absurd. The government's only concern should be protecting society from those that have proven themselves to be a threat, and that's not something that changes with the calendar.

  9. What else is there? You deprive rights or you hit the person's wallet.

    I'd love to see community service be a part of it, but then you run into issues with that concept as well.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by icarusfall View Post
    It because our penal system isn't based on reform - it's about vengeance.
    This. we have an incredibly fractured system, but we also have a warped perception in society about crimes as well, so...yeah. These things feed into each other. One only needs to look at the punishment in relation to different drug classes to get that.

    I think most people are willing to give someone a second chance in some capacity who have served time for a crime, but the hard line even among criminals is child abuse/sex. That's our big no-no, for the most part. We're willing to celebrate murderers, but having sex with a kid is off limits. I mean, not everyone is going to feel that way, but most of our culture sort of falls in line with that notion. Expecting people to forgive that infraction is expecting a LOT, imo. I think in the case of the predator guy, that probably needed to have been a conversation the director had with the crew, but then that's probably violating some sort of fair employment laws, etc. So...yeah. Lose-lose either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by dechecho View Post
    Where am I anyway? - I only registered on here to post on this thread

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