Warcraft 3

[Schlep]

Ok, first of all, you know that you're absolutely addicted to a game when you look at the clock, it says 4AM, and you think you can get one more game in before you go to sleep to wake up for work at 6:30AM.

I must say that I'm getting better at the game, but I'm having problems kicking my old Starcraft/Age of Empires habit of turtling. I creep just fine and tech fine, but I get stuck in this fear that if I send my army into his expansions, that I'm going to get mauled. Still alot of fun though and I'm learning from replays. 1 game away from level 5 on b.net under "Huntress_Fodder" Where's everyone else at?

oh, I play Undead, btw.

[Rumpy]

This sums up my feelings pretty well, but I'm committed to doing better.

Heh, I was waiting for another WCIII thread to pop up, this is the third one since the release .

I'm on a losing streak, so that doesn't help any. I looked at the replay of my last loss, it was actually a really good match, and I just paid for my mistakes. Me (undead) wih an Orc against Orc and Human. Orc was way better than the human, we had some serious brawls.

The orc attacked my expansion, and I beat him away pretty easily, he ended up running away. After looking at the replay, if I followed him, it would have taken me right to his building expansion, and odds are I could have at the very least killed his hero, remaining troops and done some real damage before his ally came to help. But I just sat there. I was afraid I'd get mauled so I waited to get more troops together. That was the nail in the coffin right there. He started making shamans, and it was all over.

I just sit there like a dope when I should attack. I still need to be more aggresive and build faster yet. I have my start build order down to a science, it's the last few buildings I need to fine tune. It also looks like most people go for a second hero...sometimes I do. I have a lot to work on still.

[Schlep]

man...I know what you mean about sitting there like a dope. I think it's kind of second nature. In almost every other RTS game if you had just battled with the enemy and lost some units, it'd be insane to try to invade their town or expansion at that point. But in WC3 it's necessity. Out of curiosity, what's your initial build order? Mine so far seems to usually go 3 aco's to gold, ghoul to wood, start 2 new acos to gold, start crypt and zigg, wait til 300, start altar, wait for 50 lumber, start zigg, train ghouls, graveyard...start creeping with Hero and 9 ghouls. Anywhere close to yours?

[SearchManX]

Hopefully soon I'll be joining you guys. I just finished the Orc campaign yesterday and I'm now starting the Night Elves. I haven't played as them yet but they seem to be my favorite after looking at all the cool units.

Is it just me or do the missions sometime get very hard, then surprisingly easy? Not easy as in you finish the mission quick, easy as in you just keep pushing units and you eventually win? The last Orc mission wasn't that bad aside from the pesky Infernals but I managed to beat it on the first try.

[Rumpy]

2 mine gold, ghoul to tree. I cue one aco to be made (put the rally point on the mine. With the free aco, I put up the altar, and then a zigg. A few seconds later I have enough for crypt. send that aco to the mine, and then make another aco.

Wait till buildings come in, make hero right away, cue 2 ghouls, set rally point to harvest wood. Take aco from mine to make zigg, then back to mine. Make 3 more ghouls. Take 5 ghouls and go creeping with hero. Then it's a graveyard while I make more ghouls (I like to have 2-3 harvesting wood.

This is where I tend to slow down, and need work. I think the best next step is to upgrade to Halls of the Dead so you can start making necromancers ASAP. Also, I usually upgrade ghoul armor first.

SearchManX: Pretty much, as long as your fast enough most missions are won like that. If you slow down and don\'t stay on top of things, you\'ll get taken.

[Schlep]

Sounds pretty good...do you use that extra aco that you made for building the extension mine later in the game while you upgrade your Necropolis? I usually just pull mine off the mine for a second or two to summon a building and then throw them right back on the mine. Sometime I'd like to find out if I spend more gold by pulling an aco off once in a while than if I were just to make an extra one at some point.

I haven't played the Single Player beyond the very first Orc campaign. I'm thinking that I may go back and play through that while I'm waiting on the patch to come out.

[Stibbons]

I have a badass human strategy that I just shared with Rumpy, so I'll share it here too. You guys don't play human, but be on the watch for this if you're playing against one...

Humans are the only race that can fast build, so I get about 5 peasants to quickly chip away and make an altar and farm. I quickly make an archmage and either give him blizzard or summon water elemental. I quickly dart my hero down to the enemy's base and just blizzard the fuck out of their peon-gold line, or let a couple elementals pick them all off. It really screws with the opponent's early game and build order, and as the game goes on, you'll start to see how far behind they've fallen.

It only works well on small maps and 2vs2, but it's great. If you're trying it on 3vs3, the best strat is to get your allies' heroes to follow you down once they're ready and attack anyone that attacks your archmage.

Hasn't failed yet.

[Taekwondo Master]

I can't get on battle.net yet (crappy computer..) but I play single player custom levels a lot. Usually either 1 vs 1, 2vs2, or FFA3. Orcs are definetly my favorite race. Night Elves are also very cool, as are Humans, but I need more practice with them before I really start to use them. Orcs are just so damn cool. When I start, I immediately send 3 peons to mine, have one build a burrow, and the other start on a barracks while I cue 2 additional peons. The first one that comes out I stick on cutting wood, and when the second one comes out, I have him build a barracks. By now the one building the burrow is usually done, so I'll send him on gold. Now I'll usually just cue the remaining peons so that I'll have five on gold and five on wood. I almost always use the Tauren Chieftan as my first hero. I just love his earthpound ability that stuns enemies. Resurrection is also an awesome ability. Usually I'll send him out with 2 grunts and maybe a troll spearthrower to creep, and send additional troops to aid them as he goes. It works pretty well. I've noticed my main problem comes in the middle of the game. In that time when I've established my base and am just starting to upgrade things (such as great hall to stronghold, etc.) and I often fall behind and don't make a spirit hall or bestiary as soon as I should, and then sometimes I'll get rushed and lose most of my buildings. Once I get another gold mine though I tend to do pretty well. I definetly have things to work on, thats for sure. And btw, I usually will make an additional hero once my first one is level 6 or so. Sometimes the mission is already over by then, but if not then I'll usually make a blademaster.

PS, what is everyone's favorite hero? Mine is the Tauren Chieftain for his support ability, most importantly his earthpound ability, and resurection. Oh, and I HATE Far Seers once they reach level 6. They always use earthquake on my defenses and just totally demolish all my watch towers (I've learned guard towers and the like aren't as effective in WC3 as they were in WC and SC).

[flux=rad]

I think the build pretty much all the top players use for Undead is make altar and crypt right off the bat. Queue up 2 acolytes. When you get 150 gold make zig. Then make 2nd zig soon after. It's very easy to beat an undead player with the strategy stibbons just described. You have to get a hero out as soon as possible to fight off a hero rush, but at the same time you can't delay your crypt because you need more than 1 ghoul on wood.

Sometimes I make a 6th acolyte to scout, but I never make one to just build buildings. I really don't think there's anyway that you would make that 90 gold you spent on him.

Here's a replay site that I don't think a lot of people know about. It's a russian site, but it posts replays from the best war3 players around. Some really interesting stuff http://www.progamer.ru/war3/replays.html

[FuryFox]

Yeah, like you all, I've been playing this game a ton since it came out...so much, that I'm finding VF4 to be a *relaxing* stress reliever when WC3 is getting to me. I'm surprised how stressful it is, though, at least 1v1 and 2v2 (arranged team)...one little slip up, and you can be way behind in production...

I love the game, but this sorta leads to my major gripe. There's too much early game crap that makes the matches end prematurely, and are just ultimately unfun. No offense, Stibbons, but yours is just the sort of "strategy" that makes the game less fun to play. Even you have to realize that's just a cheap early-game advantage that requires no actual strategy (especially on maps where you know where your opponent is off the bat). Even worse, one time this dude runs his hero into my base at the 2-3 minute mark, and drops 3 land mines around my ToL and AoW, etc...anyway, I chase his hero down, unknowingly set off the mines, and blow up my whole force, and all my buildings, for an instant loss, in under 5 minutes. That's just crap.

WC3 matches were never intended to be 5-10 minute affairs. All the top players seem to have cheese tactics that get them the majority of their wins, and those tactics are all early game BS. IMO, creep should block pathways, not just coves and resources. Plus, they should be much more easy to wake. I just find it frustrating that I have to make certain build and skill selection choices based on whatever cheese tactic is popular at the moment...playing Undead against NE...guess you better make a DL w/ sleep first, or the KotG is gonna kill you in >3 min, and it's over if he brings an archer.

Anyway, it may sound like I don't like the game, but I wish there was more focus on actual strategy, and less on exploitations and canned tactics.