Land Reclamation after Mining?

[Rum Baron]

I was wondering -

If you close a mine, and without using the editor, is there any way to reclaim/fill in the land again? I was thinking if you built a scenario where you need to appease the environmentalist faction by shifting away from polluting mines to agriculture plus light industry, one requirement (due to a smallish island) of success would be to reclaim the land for at least dwelling space/industry if nothing else.

[Coconut Kid]

... and without using the editor, ...

Without using the editor is the key issue. So far as I recall, most discussions about this have centered on using the editor - which use during mid-game screws things up.

Review the situation carefully. After the mine (or mines) has (have) exhaused the ore deposit, you either fire & lock-out the workers and eat the continuing maintenance costs or else you send in the Laborers to demolish the building(s). The cost of demolishing is off-set by elimination of the maintenance costs.

If you have cleared the site by demolition of the Mine building, the only problem with other uses is that the surface is not level. I do not recall if or how fertility for agricultural planting is affected by the mining operation, but that is easy to check with the overlay. [Soil Quality is negatively affected by all types of pollution.] There is nothing to stop use of the vacated pit for residental or other buildings. [The residual pollution will lower the Base Housing Quality and the job satisfaction for employment buildings; not recommended for other than 'factory' buildings.] Such use will be costly because the Laborers will have to level the site. However, you can consider that "undefined" cost (really the additional length of time for construction) to be the cost of reclaimation.

However, writing a script which would reflect "appeasement" of the Environmentalists by such a shift of uses is a doubtful possibility in my opinion.

By the way, what do you regard as "light vs heavy" industry in Tropico? Have you constructed a scale ranking the pollution of each building? Even Farms pollute.

 

[Rum Baron]

Well, I know the distinction is a bit academic in Tropico, so I suppose light vs heavy is a bit of a poor choice of words. Perhaps I should refer to the number of industrial buildings; in that case, a few industrial buildings and a large number of farms would be a lower-pollution scenario, I think. Pollution rankings, though - doesn't the PI or Mucho Macho manual (or even the older version's nice paperback manual) mention approximate pollution output?

If not, I would either use the pollution meter if there is one, and report shades of red, or use the beauty meter as a proxy.

[Clever duck]

  I believe mines don't produce pollution,  only ugliness which can be rectified with fountains etc.

  Populated areas produce pollution which can be prevented by the "anti-litter" edict.

[Coconut Kid]

This information is available on the building spread sheet which is published in one of the threads about the building file crack. I'm providing it here to save the search and cross-reference.

Two of the qualities which buildings radiate are Pollution & Beauty. Pollution has a known radiation zone, Beauty does not also, but it got left off the spread sheet and has not otherwise been published..

NEGATIVE values for Beauty (i.e. ugly):

• Tenement = -5
• Apartment = -2
• Shack = -2
• Cheap Hotel = -10
• Souvenir Shop = -2
• Duty Free Shop = -3
• Mini-Golf = -5
• Tennis Court = -2
• Pub = -2
• Restaurant = -3
• Gourmet Restaurant = -2
• Cabaret = -8
• Night Club = -2
• Casino = -5
• Sports Complex = -10
• Movie Theater = -3
• El Presidente Home = -4
• Dock = -8
• Construction Office = -2
• Teamsters' Office = -3
• Electric Power Plant = -15
• Electric Substation = -3
• Bank = -2
• Airport = -30
• Guard Station = -5
• Armory = -3
• Army Base = -10
• Foreign Military Base = -5
• Police Station = -2
• Prison = -8
• Dungeon = -7
• Immigration Office = -2
• TV Station, Newspaper & Radio Station each = -10
• Clinic = -1
• Hospital = -2
• High School = -3
• Rum Distillery = -15
• Cigar Factory = -10
• Jewelry Factory = -10
• Cannery = -18
• Lumber Mill = -12
• Furniture Factory = -10
• Farm = -3
• Fisherman's Wharf = -5
• Ranch = -3
• Mine = -15
• Logging Camp = -10

.
POSITIVE values for Beauty:

• Beach Villa = 2
• Archaeological Site = 12
• Artifact Dig = 10
• Beach Site = 5
• Museum = 12
• Palace = 5
• Church = 5
• Cathedral = 10
• College = 5
• Statue = 5
• Fountain = 9
• Large Fountain = 21
• Colonial Fort undeveloped = 10

.
Pollution values (first number is effect; second number is range or radius):

• Cheap Hotel 2/10
• Hotel 3/10
• Luxury Hotel 4/10
• Condo set to Tourist Time Share 2/10
• Marina 5/10
• Dock 20/15
• Construction Office & Teamster's Office each 3/10
• Electric Power Plant 30/15
• Electric Substation 5/10
• Airport 35/25
• Army Base 20/15
• Prison 5/10
• Dungeon 2/10
• Newspaper 5/10
• Rum Distillery 40/20
• Cigar Factory 5/15
• Jewelry Factory & Cannery each 20/15
• Lumber Mill 30/20
• Furniture Factory 15/15
• Farm 2/10
• Fisherman's Wharf 15/15
• Ranch 5/10
• Mine 15/10
• Logging Camp 10/10

.
Sorry, the Mine is both ugly and polluting.

So far as the program is understood, positive & negative beauty will balance each other out. Over what distance is not well defined not yet published.

Positive beauty has no known effect on counterbalances, but does not remove, pollution.

In fact, it seems that once a building has established a pollution pattern or deposit, that zone can not be eliminated. This has not been closely studied, but some reports indicate that the Air Pollution Standards and the Anti-Litter Ordnance edicts do nothing to change already existing pollution. That is, they change things only prospectively.

That means that my answer above about reclaiming mine sites neglected to mention that mining pollution could NOT be cleaned up even though the pit could be leveled by construction of buildings.

 

[Coconut Kid]

... Pollution rankings, though - doesn't the PI or Mucho Macho manual (or even the older version's nice paperback manual) mention approximate pollution output? ...

Not so far as I have found.

I suspect you are thinking of BradyGames Strategy Guide. It gives the beauty values in its list of buildings, and it discusses the environment on pages 50 to 53 and mentions some buildings in a most general way. It is on the disk with "Mucho Macho" and later editions.

The applicable overlays are: A} Info Mode (the EYE); B} the Island (ground) upper right; C} Environment, lower row second from right. It has three parts: 1} Overall; 2} Beauty; 3} Pollution. Unfortunately, the overlays don't tell you much about the buildings. They tell you only how things stand as of the time you are looking.

Don't forget that besides pollution from buildings, there is pollution from "Litter" associated with people and which shows up in "populated" areas.

BTW, the paper manual that came with the original version was screwed up beyond belief in some parts.

[Rum Baron]

Thanks for the information. Yes, I have the strategy guide from BradyGames, although my version (I believe) is only for the v1.07 and not for the Paradise Island patch (Both of which I bought; I didn't know Mucho Macho was going to come out and save me 30 bucks had I bothered to wait about a year before buying Tropico! ). The manual I have for the paperback - it's been a while since I looked at it so nothing immediately comes to mind as being written wrong in the manual, although it's obviously obsoleted now by PI.

[Coconut Kid]

Thanks for the information. Yes, I have the strategy guide from BradyGames, ...

BradyGames has published only one version of the Strategy Guide, and it was indeed for v1.07. It is also the exact version included with Mucho Macho on the disk in PDF format. So far as I know, there is no Strategy Guide updated to include Paradise Island.

The original paper manual (speaking for the one I have):
The text seems to be reliable. I have annotated no errors until page 44: "If you win (by fair means or not) you will be told so, and life will carry one." That's not a major problem.
> Page 50, Lumber Mill - does it have 6 rather than 5 Factory Workers?
> Page 51, Rum Distillery - Notes soil quality for selected crop
> Page 51, Ranch - Income From Refinement of fish, pineapple, coffee into canned fish, canned pineapple, canned coffee Livestock production Options Cattle, Goats   Staff  2 Farmersn
> Page 51, Fisherman's Wharf - Income From Refinement of tobacco into cigars Fishing
> Page 52, Logging Camp - Requirements Must be placed on shoreline
> Page 52, Mine - Staff 5 rather than 8 Miners
> Page 52, Bungalow - Notes 'eye' on wrong line Base Tourism Quality is 70 rather than 7
> Page 53, Pool - Notes 'eye' on wrong line
> Page 54, Pub - Picture is Bungalow rather than Pub ; Income From Meal/Drinks Charge
> Page 55, Gourmet Restaurant - Staff 6 Maids 4 Cooks
> Page 55, Sports Complex - Picture is Pool rather than Sports Complex
> Page 56, Port - Staff 5 rather than 4 Dockworkers
> Page 57, Diplomatic Ministry - Requirements Electric Power Plant  Staff 3 rather than 4 Bureaucrats
> Page 58, Police Station - Notes 'eye' missing
> Pages 58 - 60, All mention of Newspaper building missing
> Page 59, TV Station - Requirements Electricity (1525 Mw) Options BBC not included Notes Only six five allowed per island
> Page 59, Hospital - Picture is Armory rather than Hospital Requirements Clinic Electricity (1520 Mw)
> Page 64, Child - Too old to work. Will wander map "enjoying retirement" until passing away. Will wander map "playing" until age 13.
> Page 70, Foreign Policy - the two edicts labeled "Development Aide" actually show the conditions for "Alliance" except that relations have to be Very Good or better. Meanwhile the actual descriptions for Development Aide are completely left out. Additionally, the two "Trade Delegation" edicts omit the requirement for an Airport.

Of course some of these errors are obivious and/or of minor importance. They do reflect some careless work by the publisher. No one feels good about the rest of the manual when such such obivious errors hit them in the eye.

If by some strange happenstance a player should read/study the manual before undertaking to play the game -- there are some some things, particularly ommissions, which lead to confusion.

 

[Coconut Kid]

I have updated my previous posts in this thread to reflect my latest understanding of the key issues.

Probably the most important realization that I have had recently on this topic is that pollution of all types has a negative effect on soil quality. This is a game artifice which subtlety mimics crop depletion of fertility; the Farm has a low level of pollution. Gameplay has typically been centered on locating Farms by consideration of soil moisture because the land had not been subject to any prior pollution and therefore showed little differences in soil quality.

I have been slow to realize that residual along with active pollution will also reduce the base quality rating of housing and the job satisfation rating of employment buildings. The NPCs don't like pollution even though they create some themselves (litter) just by their presence.

[Coconut Kid]

I should also mention that closer reading of the Tropicology thread on mining seems to indicate that exhaustion of the ore lode is not tracked by the "ground" but rather by the mine building. So, when one mine stops producing, just build another to continue production.

[Rum Baron]

You know, I was just wondering about that, because I've had some mines dig some reeaaaallly deep holes in the ground and I was wondering if mines ever actually petered out. 

[Coconut Kid]

For information about deep mines, look here:
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tropico/cafe/index.php?topic=10428.0


Each tile has a depth which I estimate (guess) to be eight defineable levels. This is important only for water (greater depth holds more fish) and mineral ore deposits. When the deposits are initially placed, each click on a tile charges a level and changes the shade of color; each level is of equal richness - so the "richest" part is also the deepest part. When the Miners "work" a tile, they have to remove the ore from the top level first and work sequentially to the bottom level. The animation is only a crude representation of the action with the work actually being denominated by the pick & shovel strokes. Consider the Lumberjack's "whacks" and the construction Laborer's "shovel strokes" and "hammer blows" as similar definitions. Yes, it does take longer to carry the product from the lowest level to the building's output queue. The "pit" does not accurately display the configuration of the deposit.

[Rum Baron]

Incidentally, I have found that if you rapido a very large building (Sports Complex, etc) over a mine at just the right spot, the soil gets filled in and flattened out. I imagine that without rapido the workers would spend a long time levelling the soil first, so such a reclamation project would, as in real life, take years to accomplish.

I didn't check the entertainment quality, though, to see if it was negatively affected by sitting on top of an old mine.