Development is being polished; this thread is done!

[Caribbean King]

The point is not to "show-case" it. More particularly, not to have any of units/citizens/tourists tagged as addicts.

Once again, I agree

[Coconut Kid]

I love this thread.  I have so many ideas, and the developer's might come to the board, and see this thread.  They could get some idea's, and we could have an even better game.

please! the developers are not short of ideas. even if they were, there are hundreds if not thousands of ideas already posted on the bugs and suggestions board. you could go there and brouse. on this site there are already more speculations, dreams, fantasies and actual reports of game play than the developers of t-3 could read between now and their projected release date. BTW, they already come by and read the serious stuff.

[el_malo]

Some "Rastafarian" avatars... bopping around the island  

The Drug Lord, and his ebil minions, could produce some interesting artwork

[Coconut Kid]

What about bridges.

I don't think we need to be concerned.

The entire base program is being "re-written" which means to me that the land formation is not going to be anything like it was before.

We simply have to wait to find out about the land and sea.

[Coconut Kid]

Some "Rastafarian" avatars... bopping around the island  
The Drug Lord, and his ebil minions, could produce some interesting artwork

Do they/he get a faction?

 

[Popol Vuh]

... I also thought it could be a good idea to have production of drugs into Tropico. If we see hemp and cocaine plantations pop up in different remote locations you could decide if you want fight them or collect bribes from them. If the owners get to powerful they could become a threat to the government and also it should affect the relations to the US in a negative way. Also it should affect the kind of tourists that is atracted and the way productivity of the citizens who get addicted.

This idea would completely destroy the game. It would descend to a level below Grand Theft Auto.

Why is everyone so fixated on having to have drugs in the game? Is it because your world revolves around drugs? Look at what is happening to Mexico today. Do you want drug dealers killing and beheading half the people on your island?

My position is that if alcohol is not enough for you and you demand more drugs in your game -- GO GET ANOTHER GAME !!!

Actually when you ask if you want drug dealers killing and beheading people, you are pointing out what would be the challenges of implementing these products. It might not be a good idea to you, or anyone else for that matter, but drugs are a major problem in modern societies and they have been produced in the sort of unstable countries that Tropico represents.For you to imply that anyone suggesting to bring drugs into the game are using drugs is both ridiculous and offensive.

[Coconut Kid]

... but drugs are a major problem in modern societies and they have been produced in the sort of unstable countries that Tropico represents. For you to imply that anyone suggesting to bring drugs into the game are using drugs is both ridiculous and offensive.

Those are points on which I disagree with you most completely.

Finding an "implication" about which to be offended is the ridiculous part. If, as I ask, your life does not revolve around drugs, why are you so fixated on having them in the game? It is sufficient to answer the question. Perhaps you had been reading this board/site for a long time before you registered and posted. Perhaps you have seen lots of posts here. I'll tell you it is my opinion that a goodly number of them give every evidence that the poster is "high" on something -- legal or not. The chit-chat about having drugs in Tropico dates back to the first days at the Cafe.

Your reasons are >>1  that drugs are a major problem in modern society; and >>2 they have been produced in the sort of unstable countries that Tropico represents.

No one can argue that drugs are not a major problem in modern society. However, one could argue that Tropico is not "modern" society. It is a game world with a simulated setting of the last half of the 20th century. That setting emphasis is on the "Cold War" between the communist block led by the Soviet Union and the capitalist block led by the U.S. The international drug problem is not "modern" since it has been around at least since the "Opium Wars" in China in the 19th century. Tropico does not include units/people who are identified as or act like addicts -- whether alcohol or drugs. The economy is very generalized to 'legal' products.

While pressing for a better "simulation", one can not press for a 'total' inclusion of all society's problems. I agree with the original conception that limited crime to a very generalized radiation from buildings and the crazy behavior of the 'Spring Break' Tourists. I believe that adding production of any illegal product -- which would require a new building or new option in an old type -- would attract maggots rather than healthy players to the game. It would sell games -- as Grand Theft Auto sells -- but not a game I wish to play.

I think your conclusion that illegal drugs had their source only in "unstable" countries is on questionable grounds. Further, Tropico represents some countries which were not unstable at all. Based on the skill of El Presidente, some were quite stable for a long time.

[Mr.Eastwood]

The news of Tropico 3 excited me like no ones business but the knowledge that the T3 team will be coming here to gather input makes it even better. I hope they take a lot of these ideas to heart to make a more realistic and enjoyable game, which I might add, is going to be a hard job to perform 

Here are just a few of my ideas. Please keep in mind I'm a bit of a dreamer so I'd enjoy y'alls opinion of my ideas as well. Please feel free to steamline them if you feel they are to "complicated" and such:

~ Perhaps some sort of way to actually flip between different styles of government, I.E. Capitalist, Socialist, Communist, etc.
Example- say by adding the ability to tax, or making buildings buyable to the citizens of Tropico to increase/decrease the Capitalist/Socialist/Communist/etc rating of your government type.

~ I agree with increasing the possibility of bi-gender roles in the workplace, but in the scope of reality, making everything time-sensative. Say by allowing only men to be police officers or in the military, in the beginning, but after some number of years, women are allowed to do both. In all my ideas, realism is a constant factor so this time-sensative factor will repeat itself in a number of things.

~ Allowing certain types of buildings only after a certain number of years/conditions as well as creating different types of the same building. An example could be the power plant; in the beginning you are only allowed to build a coal power plant, but say after 30 years the ability to produce a, separate, oil power plant presents itself. Perhaps even later down the road, another 30-50 years, the possibility to have cleaner energy like solar power/wind power presents itself. Go crazy with the idea, like making solar panels for houses/businesses to help reduce the demand for energy at the power plants.

~ I liked the idea of a mall and it gave me an idea as well. Perhaps you can have a whole different type of buildings that help increase the "Quality of Life" and "Housing Quality" meters for individual Tropicans. Furnature Store, Appliance Store, Auto Retailer, etc so that Tropicans can spend their hardearned money on amenities to increase their quality of life. It could also affect your government type as well as the environmental beauty, or lack thereof. It could work for everyone who lives in the house as well. Again, these buildings could be time-sensative or have certain factors  reached before they are allowed to be built.

~ This next idea goes specifically if the "Auto Retailer" is made. It could go a long way with the idea of making travel even more important. I forget who said it about the people living on a town on the otherside of the island, only to have them leave the minute they get to work because they are tired. The car could make that possible as well as having factors on the "Environment" and "Quality of Life" meters.

~ How about edicts that have an effect on your government, and therefore, the freedom rating of Tropicans and the island as a whole. The ability to declare Martial Law was great in Paradise Island. What about more edicts like that. Perhaps one that allows you to create a "Legislature" or a "Court of Law". It could, possibly, add a whole new dimension to gameplay.

~ I also liked a lot of other previous ideas, which I will reiterate right now:
-The idea to make all buildings rotatable.
-Making cattle/goats not eat themselves out of grass so fast.
-Making jails more interactive. Say by actually making some Tropicans prone to crime and having cops arrest 'said' criminals on their own.

Well, that's all I have for right now. If I come up with anymore, well I'm sure I'll be lettin' y'all know it 

[Caribbean King]

  I think your idea's are very creative, but if I can be honest with you, I'm not too keen on the whole building time-sensitive thing.  I really like starting my island off with electric plants, and all kinds of other things.  I love your idea of the solar power, wind power for the island.

[TeamStar]

Perhaps one that allows you to create a "Legislature" or a "Court of Law". It could, possibly, add a whole new dimension to gameplay.

You mean like bringing captured rebels to justice and convict them to jail? That could work.

[Coconut Kid]

... Here are just a few of my ideas. Please keep in mind I'm a bit of a dreamer so I'd enjoy y'alls opinion of my ideas as well. Please feel free to steamline them if you feel they are to "complicated" and such: ...

My opinions:

As long as the game is a GOD game, that is with the player in charge -- it is really hard to flip the economy away from centralized state control. That makes it look to be either Soviet style Communism (not socialist at all) or Fascist Corporatism. The only way the two can be told apart is by some fine details of social policy. I suspect that those who try to play the game as capitalists are actually operating as Fascist Corporatists. What would be needed to simulate other economic strategies is either a very strong AI or an unusual multi-player approach -- in both those cases, El Presidente would not be El Supremo!

I suspect that T1 would have had more "time sensitivity" if not for the need for minimal coding. The time span between 1950 and 1999 covers several terrifically important social and technological changes. If nothing else, the Soviet Union has to shut down. Off-shore oil has to be included. The Caribbean average wage has to fluctuate and not be just a straight line increase. Commodity prices have to fluctuate - especially in relation to relations with the US & USSR even without decrees. Changes in the game should be tied to the calendar. Almost all of the current buildings were technically available in 1950, but some would have been out of the price range of El Presidente. Rather than link a prohibition on building to the calendar, I would suggest linking a change in the $ cost to the calendar. An example is my pet-peeve: the TV Station -- in 1950, it should cost $75,000; then let the $ cost drop $5,000 every five years after that. I have commented on the media -- both the TV and Radio Stations have to 'subsume' receivers among the population for effectiveness.

BTW coal or oil for the Power Plant were equally available at a comparitively equal price at the start -- both were imported. The only significant change would be local production of oil. With that, an adjustment between the sale price of the oil and the cost of the Power Plant could be made. Remember that a lot of the small change of electric power is subsumed in the game. There is nothing to gain with elaborations about what we read in the newspaper today.

MALL shopping centers, etc. Please! This is not 2008, middle class US stuff. The development of T1 dropped 'Plaza' and some other space consuming "buildings" because they did not work. Elaboration of Tropico to create mainstreet USA is not in the cards (I hope). I do think the building Marketplace could have an expanded function for "Quality of Life". (I find that cliche to be repugnant, but no one seems to be able to say it another way.) It should require more space.

Some days I wish that T3 would turn into a huge parking lot for highly detailed icons of pre-1950 automobiles exported from the junk yards of the US. All the 'people' of Tropico should have a new, additional satisfaction meter added to show their ownership of an automobile. Without one, they will protest, riot and start an uprising to get one. All the other 'satisfactions' are secondary. It makes no difference that the road to the other side of the island is packed full of vehicles.

 

[Coconut Kid]

... Here are just a few of my ideas. ...
~ How about edicts that have an effect on your government, and therefore, the freedom rating of Tropicans and the island as a whole. ... Perhaps one that allows you to create a "Legislature" or a "Court of Law". It could, possibly, add a whole new dimension to gameplay.

~ I also liked a lot of other previous ideas, which I will reiterate right now:
-The idea to make all buildings rotatable.
-Making cattle/goats not eat themselves out of grass so fast.
-Making jails more interactive. Say by actually making some Tropicans prone to crime and having cops arrest 'said' criminals on their own. ...

My opinions:

Edicts to create new government agencies is a nice idea. However, are you in charge of them or not? Who is playing this game anyway? Perhaps you are suggesting a way to enable the multi-player mode? Otherwise, all I can guess is that these decrees would activate an AI to play an independent role. That's a lot of coding my friend - I think.

All buildings rotatable -- before or after construction? Who knows what modern miracles of coding can produce? I suspect this is just a 'fiddle-factor' for those addicted to 'Sim-City', etc. If you look at a table of the sizes of the bases of the current non-rotatable buildings, you will see that few are rectangular. The not square buildings are the only ones which actually impede compact "city building" ON TOTALLY FLAT GROUND. Mostly the island is not an edited pancake. Some players like to do that, but ~~ Then we progress to the artistic idea of the look of the building on its site. I think the Casino looks wierd (like most of the state of Nevada) no matter which way you look at it. None the less, everyone arrives here and cheers for total rotation of buildings.

Consumption of grass on Ranches. The fix needs to be take cows & goats out of the people starvation routine. However, my opinion is that the size of the Ranch (its invisible fence) is far, far too small. The Farm has a five squares boundary in which the workers may plant. The Ranch's invisible fence is at only eight squares. That is ridiculously small even in a subsumed game. Most non-tree farms use less than half of their allowed area. The Farm area seems game balanced. Even on a Caribbean island, a Ranch -- using the less fertile and rougher ground -- should be three to four times as large as an intensive agricultural plot. So I suggest the 'invisible' Ranch fence should be set at 18 squares/tiles.

BTW Overlapping Farms; overlapping Ranches; overlapping Farms & Ranches is an interesting game play issue which has not been reported. Example: If you build corn Farms and Ranches overlapping each other, will the cows eat the corn or ~~? How closely can you overlap diverse field crop Farms of before the Farmers hoe away the other crop?

Interactive Jail Buildings. Interactive with what? The Jail buildings are one of El Presidente's tools. Do you wish to delete his control over their use? They are not about crime. They are about INTIMIDATION of his not-so-loyal citizens. For goodness sake, no citizen of Tropico is an actual criminal except the Rebels. Crime is a 'subsumed' thing which is radiated from buildings (and maybe a few units/citizens such as the Rebels and the Unemployed - we don't know) and not something corrected by the Jail building. I think that reprograming the units/citizens to include a criminal "tendency" just to give the Policeman units and the Jail building some sort of interactivity is not a bright idea. If that is done and a lot of parallel programing is done, what is there for the player to do? Put the disk in the drive and turn the game on -- then sit and watch it play with no need for direction?

[Coconut Kid]

You mean like bringing captured rebels to justice and convict them to jail? That could work.

Perhaps an Edict allowing Rebels to be found -- as they are not now -- by Generals (only) and arrested and taken to the Colonial Fort Dungeon for a full three year term after which he/she is transferred to a Prison for a full five (7?) year term.

Probably the Colonial Fort Dungeon's capacity would have to be adjusted upwards. Poor El Presidente would have to 'micro-manage' the capacity of his Prisons to allow space for the 'Former' Rebels graduating from the Dungeon.

Yes, that would bring the Rebels to "justice" considering that the Colonial Fort Dungeon could be considered to have a 'subsumed' "Military Tribunal" to adjudicate their status as unlawful combatants.

Perhaps that is too modern. Back in the 1950's, there was not such niceness rendered.

I opine that the game's take on "Justice" is already adequate. Unless the multi-player gives you a judge you can't kill.

[el_malo]

Perhaps an Edict allowing Rebels to be found -- as they are not now -- by Generals (only) and arrested and taken to the Colonial Fort Dungeon for a full three year term after which he/she is transferred to a Prison for a full five (7?) year term.

I agree that Trop3 should allow soldiers, not just generals, to "see"Rebels... I have
no desire to arrest them.

The abliity to locate Rebels should be tied to training.

The better trained a soldier/general, the more likely they are to find Rebels.

If the Conscription Edict stays in the game, conscripts should lose their desire to flee...
over a period of time.

1st Year of service = 50%
2nd Year of service = 60%
3rd Year of service = 70%
4th tear of service = 80%
5th Year of service = 90%

If a conscript stays in the Army after 5 years, this should be a possibility, they function
identical to other soldiers.

To be honest, after reviewing what I wrote, it is not very realistic.

Again, maybe training should have an effect on their desire to flee.

In RL, training does exactly this.

[TeamStar]

I think the Casino looks wierd (like most of the state of Nevada) no matter which way you look at it.

I think that most of the buildings are somehow disproportional to each other and to humans, but for what I've seen from the new developer, that will be corrected.

None the less, everyone arrives here and cheers for total rotation of buildings.

Indeed.

[el_malo]

1st Year of service = 50%
2nd Year of service = 60%
3rd Year of service = 70%
4th tear of service = 80%
5th Year of service = 90%

Oops, I had my brain i stand-by mode.

It should be...

1st Year of service = 50%
2nd Year of service = 40%
3rd Year of service = 30%
4th tear of service = 20%
5th Year of service = 10%

[Coconut Kid]

I think that most of the buildings are somehow disproportional to each other and to humans, ...

I recall reading a comment about that from the T1 developers. I'm sorry I don't recall it better, but I think it had to do with the impossibility drawing the buildings in a true scale with the island and vegetation -- while at the same time giving many of them any visual identity at all.

The "humans" are only avatars -- but the same problem applies.

I think you are correct -- the new developer has better tools to get things in proportion.

 

[Caribbean King]

MALL shopping centers, etc. Please! This is not 2008, middle class US stuff. The development of T1 dropped 'Plaza' and some other space consuming "buildings" because they did not work. Elaboration of Tropico to create mainstreet USA is not in the cards (I hope). I do think the building Marketplace could have an expanded function for "Quality of Life". (I find that cliche to be repugnant, but no one seems to be able to say it another way.) It should require more space.

I really like the shopping center idea, or  at least a small one.  I don't really like the whole "This was not available in 1950, so you can't use it idea"  I think they should give us all types of buildings, and it's up to the player to decide if he/she wants to follow history or not.

[el_malo]

I really like the shopping center idea, or  at least a small one.  I don't really like the whole "This was not available in 1950, so you can't use it idea"  I think they should give us all types of buildings, and it's up to the player to decide if he/she wants to follow history or not.

Fortunately, you are not the game developer.

[Capitaligous]

 Well it would be kinda weird having a mega-mall in the middle of corn farms and shacks. The marketplace should have a wider function, one that actually could make money for the treasury instead of just being a stockpile of food for the civilians. Perhaps it could actually sell the food.

The marketplace could also be a pickup point for teamsters to bring the food to the docks, instead of them having to go out of their way to stop by each individual farm. The farmers could bring the food to the marketplace, and the teamsters would take the surplus to the docks.

[Caribbean King]

Fortunately, you are not the game developer.

(Sarcastic Laugh ) HA HA HA HA

[Caribbean King]

Fences that won't let your people go where you don't want them to go.  I would finally be able to put a fence up around my palace.  Furthermore the fence would only allow certain people, like gov. soldiers only.

[TeamStar]

Fortunately, you are not the game developer.

You can say that again!

Malls on 50's Tropican islands, really...   

[el_malo]

Instead of a mall, it would be more appropriate to have an open-air market... with stalls and vendor carts located
on the edges.

[Caribbean King]

For the mall and shopping center suggestion, I'm entitled to my opinions, just as anyone else is.