Player : Game Interface in T3

[Coconut Kid]

There have been several comments here that the "interface" could be improved.

For me, those comments have been somewhat vague.

Then it flashed into my mind that perhaps the problem was with the 'old fashioned' Central Control Panel.

My experience with games is limited, but I suspect that later games rely more on "hot-keys" and "pop-up" dialog boxes. Indeed now thinking about it, I recall that to play some games the players were advised to turn-off their anti-popup software.

I suppose that in some ways the 'Central Control Panel' and colors on the map and arrows over units are redundant. I think that at least an >>Info Bar<< should be retained. The 'Circle Window' would seem a necessary automatic pop-up with an automatic pause -- like the new sports field 'instant replay' for the umpires -- for some situations such as edicts.

The big problem is (IMHO) teaching newbies the 'hot keys' to get the popups.

Comments?

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

I will try to summarize the problems I see in the interface of the first Tropico here.

1.   The interface is scattered in many different places. You have one control regarding the people working in a building, one for setting work modes, your happiness is a bar below the "magi c 8-ball", the "magic 8-ball" itself (which is used for people watching, and important information about elections, coups and uprisings simultaneously), the almanac, and the build menu/edicts/overlays thing and more.

2.   There are too many mouse clicks in order to reach important information like the happiness link in the almanac which is a very useful tool for seeing what your people need most at the moment. This particular link has to be reached by clicking on your money or the stats nearby (1 click), then on the "People" tab (2 clicks) and then on the link itself (3 clicks).

3.   There is no prioritizing in the interface - vital information can be as hard to reach (or even harder in some cases) than not-so important stuff (e.g. detailed information about an industry which you may not have at all).

4.   No shortcuts - when I click on a logging camp it would be really useful, if I could see an overview of the entire industry from the building itself, rather than browsing through the almanac.

5.   The interface is simply too big. Almost a third of the screen space is used even when nothing is selected.

6.     Notifications are all messed up. There are three different ways notifiactions are presented - voice, memos, and some are in the magic 8-ball. There should be a unified system for all notifications.

These are the problems we are trying to tackle with the interface for Tropico 3. We also feel that it would be better if most (or all, if possible) of the interface should be based around the same theme (we have a couple of different ideas).

[Coconut Kid]

If I may, I wish to respond to each of your points:

I will try to summarize the problems I see in the interface of the first Tropico here.

1.   The interface is scattered in many different places. You have one control regarding the people working in a building, one for setting work modes, your happiness is a bar below the "magic 8-ball", the "magic 8-ball" itself (which is used for people watching, and important information about elections, coups and uprisings simultaneously), the almanac, and the build menu/edicts/overlays thing and more.

I don't see that "scattering" as a bad thing. For one thing, the MAIN WINDOW or MAP is the primary "interface"; therefore it is desireable to allow the play to see as much of it as possible. That might mean that the Central Control Panel should become a "pop-up"; The Map Navagation Area and the Circle Window might become suppressible, separately.

2.   There are too many mouse clicks in order to reach important information like the happiness link in the almanac which is a very useful tool for seeing what your people need most at the moment. This particular link has to be reached by clicking on your money or the stats nearby (1 click), then on the "People" tab (2 clicks) and then on the link itself (3 clicks).

I'm sorry, but I have to say you are simply incorrect on this point. One click on the happiness bar under the circle window takes you directly to the happiness page in the Almanac. True, the bar is so thin that it takes a bit of dexterity and care to get the cursor on it. One click on each of the data items under the circle window also takes you to the revalent page in the Almanac. Further, the numeric keys (0-9) can be programmed as "quick jump" hot-keys to: Almanac pages, units, map locations or buildings.
http://tropico.strategyplanet.gamespy.com/cafe/index.php?topic=8089.0

3.   There is no prioritizing in the interface - vital information can be as hard to reach (or even harder in some cases) than not-so important stuff (e.g. detailed information about an industry which you may not have at all).

What you are suggesting is that the developers / designers are better able to determine what is vital information for all players. The players themselves should be locked into a style of play predetermined for them. I'm not a professional game designer, but it seems to me that if anyone is going to prioritize the vital information, it ought to be the player. The player should play god, not the developers. See note about programable "quick jump" hot-keys.

4.   No shortcuts - when I click on a logging camp it would be really useful, if I could see an overview of the entire industry from the building itself, rather than browsing through the almanac.

That's an interesting point and probably useful. The essential kernel is the layout of the industrial overview. Providing a 'hyper-link' to it from any building in an industrial chain is simple. I suggest you try out your concept on the "Tourist Industry" or the "Farming Industry". If you can do an "overview" with revenue and costs for each level of them, you will have a winner.

5.   The interface is simply too big. Almost a third of the screen space is used even when nothing is selected.

Please see comment on your point #1 about the part of the interface always displayed.

6.     Notifications are all messed up. There are three different ways notifiactions are presented - voice, memos, and some are in the magic 8-ball. There should be a unified system for all notifications.

"Messed Up" ? Pardon me -- but in one comment you complain about NO priority (#3) and now you complain about having a priority! Part of the unique flavor of the game is the three levels of priority given to notifications. It's true that most player/scriptors use the memo almost exclusively for their scripts (they don't have the voice option on a practical level). But that does not lessen the basic game content. So you folks are going to force all notifications into one mode. Sad! The way notifications are presented represent three levels of importance/priority:

• Voice
  • Lowest Priority
  • Verisimilitude of having a 'toady' assistant
  • Playing / Watching the game or running it on 'auto-pilot'
    • The game story is for 50 to 80 years, not ten centuries
  • Not available to Scriptors
• Circle Window
  • Medium Priority
  • Watching the game
  • Lack of Scriptor use may conceal better formatting
  • Could be improved by adding a (variable?) sound
  • Would lose value if Circle Window became suppressible
• Letter
  • Highest Priority
  • Pauses game like Almanac
  • Good tool for scriptors
  • Great variability in formating
  • Essential for allowing player choices.

.

These are the problems we are trying to tackle with the interface for Tropico 3. We also feel that it would be better if most (or all, if possible) of the interface should be based around the same theme (we have a couple of different ideas).

Thank you very much for sharing these comments with us! I hope that my rejoinders may be helpful to you.

 

[TeamStar]

Hi Lyubo_Haemimont, thank you for stopping by The Café.

I agree with Coconut Kid in most of his analysis of your analysis. 

Still, I agree that the interface is too big and should take less screen space. I never heard someone complaint about information being hard to reach, maybe that's because the Almanac is very easy to understand, so players don't complain. What I've heard was complaints about loosing the shortcut keys to the Almanac pages (0-9), everytime you quit the game.

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

I would like to point out that I messed up on point 6 - what I meant was completely different but I formulated my thoughts badly. Let my try again.

The problem with notifications is not that they have different priority (which is OK when used with good measure), but they follow three completely different schemes.

The voice notifications are often too vague when warning the player about problems and can even mislead the player, giving him a wrong idea on which problem to concentrate his efforts.
Players that play the game without sound (which would be a shame, because they will miss out the great music) will not receive these notifications.


You are completely right, however, that they offer the player flavor and immersion, but at most they should have been reserved for messages like “You have been in power for more than 10 years Presidente”.

The notifications in the circle menu are the most problematic ones, as they can be lost if the player through accident or design selects one of his units which closes the information and it may be hard to receive that information again. Information about election polls, coups or uprisings is crucial and it should be present at all times while these events are relevant.

The memos occasionally offer information that is not relevant enough to justify breaking the game flow (I felt annoyed when I received some a notification about the price of goat products in the middle of a bloody uprising).

What I find messy about the notification system is that the rules by which the notifications are prioritized and presented are strange and occasionally illogical. I strongly suspect that some of these decisions were made as a result of technical limitations rather than by design.

My remark about the unified system was stupid (I added number 6 as an afterthought). What I meant was that the different notifications should be incorporated in a unified interface like the circle interface is connected intrinsically to the build/edict/overlay menu.

Now on to your other comments  

When I say that the interface is too big, I mean that there is too much space that is not directly used for providing information (too much blank space). A third of the screen is covered in a brick wall which should have been at least three rows shorter. Again, this might have been a technical thing, as the interface is not updated as often as the main window, thus improving the frame rate.

What you are suggesting is that the developers / designers are better able to determine what is vital information for all players.

The sad truth is that developers / designers are not better able to determine what information is vital for all players, but we have to… User-customizable shortcuts are a great idea, but only experienced players will actually benefit from it. New players do not know what information they need, so they will use the interface as it is. The interface greatly affects how a game looks, feels and plays – if the player experience is marred by not knowing where to click, or not knowing how to do what they want do, they might throw away the game without ever really giving it a chance.

I don't see that "scattering" as a bad thing. For one thing, the MAIN WINDOW or MAP is the primary "interface"; therefore it is desireable to allow the play to see as much of it as possible. That might mean that the Central Control Panel should become a "pop-up"; The Map Navagation Area and the Circle Window might become suppressible, separately.

What I meant was that there are too many different control schemes in too many different places. For example, firing people, upgrading, changing wages and work modes are all in the same screen but each is done differently (the work mode is changed by a drop-down menu, the wages are set by clicking on a bar, people are fired by pressing a key + mouse click and the upgrades are done through buttons).

Thank you very much for sharing these comments with us! I hope that my rejoinders may be helpful to you.

Player input is always good. I theorize too much (you might have noticed  ) and rejoinders like that bring me back to the real world with the real issues.

[Coconut Kid]

Those are excellent answers to my less than adequate replies.

Yes, it is all too common that players (such as Cafe Dave, the owner of this site) play with the sound turned off. He was amazed to learn that the sound effects changed with the location of the cursor on the map because he played Tropico as he had played RR Tycoon - with the sound off. Who knows how much he missed besides the music.

Another "founder" of this site plays the game with the speed set at its fastest because that is the way he played RR Tycoon. He really missed the bell that RRT gave when a train arrived at the station. Why didn't Tropico have a similar signal for the freighters? It is a wonder he didn't complain bitterly about the annual arrival of the Almanac. Well, maybe he did and I just didn't see it. He really didn't seem to need to see the game unfolding in any case.

I also agree that the developers (BreakAway, to name names) messed up on the use of the various levels of notifications for the expansion, PI. As I said, I know the player-Scriptors neglected the use of the 'window-notification'. I knew the window information would be interrupted by some choices, but I thought it could be reestablished -- at least I remembered doing so. It never seemed that important 'to me' to watch the graphs on elections for a year -- it was typically already too late to make a major change; likewise with coups, etc. I would agree with making the circle window a "popup" in center screen to last as long as the videos connected with the edicts. Do not connect it with the "Central Control Panel" stuff.

Newbies vs "experienced" players. If the developers/designers cater entirely to the 'newbies' (and of course hardly anyone reads the manual, so players with years of experience are surprised by what it says or doesn't say), then there is nothing to be gained from experience. That is to say, play it two or three times -- or through the "campaign" -- and there is no more 'replay' value. Perhaps you can play it again to look for the spiders & snakes in the crates of bananas, or rack-up a larger kill of rebels, or peep long distance at a bare-breasted tourist on an isolated beach.

So if it is a balance you are talking about, may the force be with you. None-the-less half the buyers will toss it before they understand it no matter what you do -- other than sex and/or violence.

Again, thank you so very kindly for engaging in a bit of dialog! It is a refreshing change.

 

[Coconut Kid]

... These are the problems we are trying to tackle with the interface for Tropico 3. We also feel that it would be better if most (or all, if possible) of the interface should be based around the same theme.

Checking over the list again, I notice you made no comment about the cumbersome seven panels for units. There's one set for citizens and another set for tourists. If you are going to simplify the building administration panel, you can surely do something with the personal dossier. It sounds as if that is the direction you are heading with the "one theme" fits all.

Just wondering.

 

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

Hmmm.... I never thought of the bars as cumbersome 


We are working on the interface right now and a lot of options are still on the table. When things are in a more completed state we will see what will fit best.

[TeamStar]

I suspect that the new interface will be completely different. But, just in the case it isn't, I leave this suggestion:

While playing a map or scenario, it would be nice if one could start a new game without having to exit to the main screen.
One can save the current game by pressing (S) and load an existing map by pressing (L).
By the same logic, one should be able to start a new map by pressing (N) or open a pre-designed scenario by pressing (O) and so on.

[Coconut Kid]

... We are working on the interface right now and a lot of options are still on the table. When things are in a more completed state we will see what will fit best.

That's two and a half months ago. You must have that almost all wrapped-up by now.

I came acoss a subset of the GUI, the Zooming User Interface (ZUI). A zooming user interface or zoomable user interface (ZUI, pronounced zoo-ee) is a graphical environment where users can change the scale of the viewed area in order to see more detail or less. A ZUI is a type of graphical user interface (GUI). Information elements appear directly on an infinite virtual desktop (usually created using vector graphics), instead of in windows. Users can pan across the virtual surface in two dimensions and zoom into objects of interest. For example, as you zoom into a text object it may be represented as a small dot, then a thumbnail of a page of text, then a full-sized page and finally a magnified view of the page.

I'm sure Lyubo knows that; I include it for the folks who are as far behind as I am.

Then I came across something about Vista:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/windows-vista1.htm

Windows Vista: Aero
In some ways, Windows Aero is similar to recent versions of the Windows GUI, like the one used in Windows XP. Aero organizes information in on-screen windows and uses icons to represent files, folders and applications. But Aero also has several features that you can think of as upgrades to the Windows XP GUI. Its windows are three-dimensional objects that you can move and adjust in any direction. Aero Glass makes the borders of each window translucent so you can see the desktop or other windows behind it.
Vista also replaces the simple, static icons that represent many files in older Windows GUIs with more elaborate Live Icons. Live Icons give you up-to-date thumbnail previews of each file. When you look at a document's Live Icon, you see what the document actually looks like rather than seeing an icon for the program that created it.

So -- I am wondering if some of these concepts are going to be used in T3 to: improve wide-open views of the game world (map); giving the player tiny signals which he can click to expand (Live Icons); playing the movies (such as those associated with edicts) on a Glass Pop-Up Window in center screen; glass windows vs opaque windows to show non-pause vs pause notifications; some electric shock notifications to catch nubies attention (just kidding).

You see, I am trying to escape my box.

 

[Coconut Kid]

I notice you made no comment about the cumbersome seven panels for units. There's one set for citizens and another set for tourists. If you are going to simplify the building administration panel, you can surely do something with the personal dossier.

Hmmm.... I never thought of the bars as cumbersome  ...

I'm not sure we made connections on that one. I meant that to review the personal dossier of a citizen/tourist, you have to click between seven panels/pages.

• Overview
• Happiness / Tourism Rating
• Politics / Attractions Visited
• Job and Housing / Current Attractions and Housing [Hotel]
• Family
• Skills / Preferred Attractions
• Thoughts

However, you mention "Bars". That seems to indicate the meters ; thermometers ; or health bar for each of the variables of the units.

They were not my point at all.

 

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

Sorry, I did not read carefully enough. The tabs are somewhat cumbersome, but they save a lot of space. I don't think we will be able to get rid of them.

Anyway, the Interface is a hard task - it has to be started early because it is needed for testing the other features (not to mention there are a lot of menus throughout Tropico with important info) and if we don't like it it takes a lot of time to do it again.

I wish we were as close as you think we are to finishing the interface - it just takes time. I would appreciate it, if el_Malo would not take this post as a sign that the project will be delayed - so far there are no such indications.

[Coconut Kid]

... I wish we were as close as you think we are to finishing the interface - it just takes time. I would appreciate it, if el_Malo would not take this post as a sign that the project will be delayed - so far there are no such indications.

April and May have gone by and you still can not insert on the screenshots a "redact" blank labeled redacted - UI??

My word! By this time you must know the general size and shape of the minimum User Interface point. If it floats, fine -- illustrate it so.

Claiming the screenshots are from "real games" would be more realistic if one could see the interface -- even if pseudo.

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

Those screenshots were taken from the game with the same type of functionality that will be used very soon by players to take their own screenshots. This is the reason why the interface is automatically removed from the screenshots - players want to show their islands not how the interface looks

The in-game UI is in a pretty final state.

[Coconut Kid]

Those screenshots were taken from the game with the same type of functionality that will be used very soon by players to take their own screenshots. ... - players want to show their islands not how the interface looks ...

I can appreciate that, and surely lots of players will cheer.

However, alternatively -- how do players capture by screenshot the vital statistics of their game. Sometimes its not the look of the island, but rather data that shows your success.

If you think I'm just being contrary, look at the threads here about competitions. O.K. not just scores, but other things. Political and economic components don't have much to do with city builders which are just pretty pictures.

Automatically kill the interface in a screenshot and a bunch of players are going to be frustrated.

 

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

Hmmm... That is a good question. At the moment there are cool ways of presenting your score to the world, so I doubt the complaints will be that many. Still, this is something to be considered.

As for a look at the new interface, the good folks at Kalypso said that they will show such screenshots as part of their plan to reveal new stuff each week until the game is released. Exactly when those screenshots will be up is their decision.

[Coconut Kid]

... As for a look at the new interface, the good folks at Kalypso said that they will show such screenshots as part of their plan to reveal new stuff each week until the game is released. Exactly when those screenshots will be up is their decision.

They have screenies showing the final working model of the user interface available now, but when they use them in their marketing "teasers" is their scheduling issue.

Of course the scores they can accumulate are extremely important to all the potential buyers of the game. The most important of the essential elements of "game-play" is the SCORE to be recorded and gloated over.

The follow-on is the difficulty rating of the game-/scenario/-challenge or campaign from which the score is derived.

I had forgotten all the really important parts of the game. 

[Coconut Kid]

The T3 Player:Game Interface (UI) was revealed (mostly) on July 14th.

http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=1486

Although they generated some discussion, the revelation could hardly be described as shocking or even a novel innovation.

[Coconut Kid]

The ten screenies used to illustrate the UI reveal a few new things; but mostly they show a compressed repackaging of the same material. I'm not excited.
Bldg. selected: under construction. Info.: Progress as bar graph (also visible stages on map); Status as paused or three priorities; Builders assigned/O.T.J.
Note: Two other buildings have a red & yellow "lightning bolt" floating above them.
Bldg. selected: Motel. Info. with "folder" selected: Display seems to be cut-off by bottom of picture. Shows "service quality" as a single figure rather than 'trailing & projected'. No employees, no data.
Bldg. selected: Souvenir Shop. Info. with "?" selected: Displayed is a description of the building and its uses.
It seems that when a building is selected, the Info. panel "pops-up". It has a menu across the top: $/folder icon/?/ and sometimes a construction crane icon.
The Construction Menu is displayed with no hint on the Mini-Map of what opened it. It has a menu across the the top showing groupings similar to T1. The "entertainment" group is selected and nine buildings appear, but the display may be cut off before the bottom. The Sports Complex has a red slash through it which I take to mean it is not available for use. BTW, looking for buildings that match the icon of the "Pub" [Cantina] in the screenies, I haven't found one so far.
Bldg. selected: Casino. Info. with $ selected: Wages, Job Quality, Fee, Service Quality. Wages and Fee set by sliders. Icons for employees [4] and patrons/(visitors) [9]. One wonders if the page is cut-off since staff:patron ratio is not evenly divisible.

Well it's different. It's more oriented to pop-ups. Probably more familiar to most players, especially the new ones. Will it facilitate game play? I would need to know if the location of the pop-ups can be pre-set by the player, and when do they pause the game. Does their appearance (art work) add to the ambiance of the game? I'm not excited.

[Coconut Kid]

The screenie with the Cathedral selected and the Info. menu set to the "$", and the "import worker" message triggered -- indicates that a message to El Presidente does pause the game.

The fancy paper for the message gives us a clue about the new "coat of arms" [LOGO] and probably the new flag too.

Personally, I would have simplified such decision documents on routine and repetitive actions rather than using the same format for both simple and important actions. In this case, the cost is lost in verbage and information about important comparisons is not available.