Tropico 3 Screenshots

[Coconut Kid]

The word abroad is that some screenshots have been published in a German computer games magazine soon before X-mas day.

Does anyone in this shrinking group have a good friend in Deutschland, the new sponsor of Tropico?

   

[TeamStar]

I read the same topic at Haemimont Games forum, I guess. I've been searching for it since then...

While searching, I found some interesting opinions about how Trop3 should be.

[Coconut Kid]

Your second link to Rock, Papar, Shotgun was quite interesting.

Grandstone says: Never played the original Tropico, but I did obsess over its demo. ... I hope they beef up the international aspect of it (maybe acknowledge the rest of Latin America, guys?) and make it a little more like Hidden Agenda, which is this great little abandonware game with the same premise (but much different execution). ...

ILR says: Well this is an interesting and unexpected announcement. Tropico was probably one of those games struggling to break even at the time but might have grown its reputation enough along the years to warrant a new version.
..., what Tropico got right was the fun factor, especially compared to the sterile Simcity series or the bland ancient city builders ... You could pick your character from all those lovably insane Latin American icons (Papa Doc! Evita! Pinochet! Che! Lou Bega!?) and just staying in power was a feat in itself with those nasty elections popping up every few years or so. To ensure re-election you could try to persuade the citizens with 24-hour sumo wrestling TV channels or Papal Visits or even cancel the elections althogether, which leads into its own problems down the road (most likely a rebel uprising).
The economy in Tropico was also well done in its depth and flexibility. The citizens weren’t just numbers in reports but had their own attributes and ambitions, and led their own lives on the island. A young, unskilled, but sharp girl might enroll in the recently-finished high school to get herself a job as a bureucrat in the nearby diplomatic ministry. A more unambitious (or unintelligent) individual might be more content to slug it out as a farmer’s wife in the coffee plantation up the hill. If there were no jobs requiring high school education available, or if the bureucrat’s wage didn’t differ that much from menial laborer’s one, almost no one would bother getting a high school diploma. You could also build the island to focus on tourism, heavy industry, or even aim to be a successful Pol Pot by going for a completely agrarian society. All this was reflected in the attitudes of the six main factions: The communists would hate El Presidente if the differences in citizens’ income got too severe and Intellectuals would hate him for the propaganda and military presence that was required to get the aforementioned Pol Pot society to stay in line, and so on.
Tropico’s flaw was that it’s unbalanced in a manner that SimCities never were. Some leader traits were completely overpowered [overpowering?] compared to others and some crops had no use whatsoever. Some disasters had an insanely hard impact, etc. All this boils down to a genuinely good game that overcomes its shortcomings with creativity, character and quirkiness. And by being just about the only Caribbean cold war game.
Assigning the task of rehauling such a franchise to a German company known for an assembly line of apparently boilerplate-ish city builders doesn’t strike me as particularly inspired.

Gladstone's theme of elaborating or expanding the international aspects of the game was mentioned several times. That bothered me a bit. It might lead to historically unsupported military stuff. Tropico is a small island -- not really Cuba. Even the very well done scenarios of Central American countries had to "subsume" a lot to fit the scale. The fun is that it is not really all that identified with actual places. If you pick one of the dictators with a real-person name, that indicates that you think of the real person as sort of a puppet.

ILR's review is one of the better ones I have seen. I added the color emphasis. Perhaps a few in that commentary thread will stop by here. We can only hope that the developers will see some of these comments.

Thanks TeamStar!

[Coconut Kid]

From Kalypso Media:

>>We had an exclusive 4 pages article in the german (sic) pc gaming magazine "PC Games"<<

 

[TeamStar]

I searched for that mag, they say (in german):

Tropico 3: Except the logo still no pictorial material is available. We assume also in Grand the Ages: Rome used diagram engine will be used.

Those screenies may soon become a myth...


EDIT: BTW, IMO the new logo still needs work ... ... ... ... works great in big format, not so great when small.

[Rebel-Yell]

Regarding the "screenshots" in the PC Games...I'm from Germany and have bought the magazine today.

There are some graphics of the game (sadly I have no means to upload them, also don't think that would be allowed) in it, though those seem NOT to be screenshots (also as the writer of the article claims that he hasn't seen the game "in action") - you can't see any interface, numbers, text, popups etc. and they are rather small, showing only few elements each - just views of landscape, people, army-trucks and buildings. They are 3D and beautiful and they remind me of the graphics of Imperium Romanum (probably better), but they don't really tell anything interesting about the gameplay IMO. One description of a screenshot says, that different zoom levels will be available, including one showing the entire island (though nothing is said about if is zooming is completely free or if the are certain increments in it).Another very close screen says its the most beautiful way of viewing tropico, but no effetive for governing it.One shows a kind of bird perspective, but still only a few buildings/people.


Here is the info the article provides:

- you will be still able to customize your dictator before starting to play, as well as you can still set the geography of your island. The info reagrding historic persons like Fidel Castro mixed - Boyan Ivanov from Haeminmont Games explains in the interview posted with the article, that choosing a historic persons does not bring any special benefits over playing your own avatar, but that you can customize both (as example, a skill called "Golden Tongue" is mentioned, which allows you to build up better relations with both the uSA and UdSSR and makes your speeches towards your people more effective, see also next point)

- you will be able to wander over the island with your avatar interacting with people or using buildings (examples: speeches from the balcony of your palace, gambling with the states money in the casino or sunbathing on the beach; if you supervise the construction of a building personally, the constructors will work faster, if you visit a restaurants, more tourists will flock to it)

- Oil will play a great role as most valuable ressource (though other industries seem to be still in, no examples given). Oil business is hard at the beginning, low demand and high up-front investments. Prices should change affected by demand and supply, allowing huge income later.

- Workers can go on strike. You can react by giving in to their demands, just waiting until they cannot afford the strike any more or using your military

- politcal challenges can be e.g. natives on your island - you can try to integrate them into your society, just taking their land might result in attacks on tourists or buildings. Again you can also use your military. Protestors among your people can stir up the masses; you can react by creating a secret pollice (which also helps vs. forein spies), but should not supress people too much with it.

- Foreign policy with USA and UdSSR seems to be similar with Tropico 1 - you can make treaties with them (no examples given), angering one side and improving relations with the other. You should be careful with speeches (see first paragraph), though there seem to be also ones dealing with domestic issues (e.g. expected development of your economy in the future). Also you can contact the UN for help, but that might strengthen the opposition (because people believe that you are a weak ruler, who can't help himself), though the latter negative side-effect doesn't happen after natural disasters (storms are mentioned)

- there will be a campaign (currently 15 missions are planned)

- if religion is in and how it works isn't sure, also not if you can attack other countries/islands

- MP: you should be somehow able to visit the islands of other players, helping them with solving problems or trading ressources. The article talks of some kind of unknown online-service involved [I hope that doesn't mean your are forced to register there, keep internet connection during play or similar things!]

- editor with scriptable events (disasters, political challenges). Beacuse this is mentioned in the part where is talked about MP, it is not clear for me whether this can used for SP proposes as well. 

- Boyan Ivanov mentions in the interview that focus will be on the unit level like in Tropico I or IR, that both casual players and profis are kept in mind (difficulty should arise from a complex simulation, not compley interface (e.g. after a storm you will get an exact report, which buildings get destroyed on which location) and that they plan to provide more content for the game after its release.

- Answers to questions fom users on pcgames.de indiacte that there are currently 60 buildings planned, that likely foreign policy or the political part in general will be improved (though nothing is set in stone here) and that the campaign is perhaps rather a sequence of single missions than a complex storyline. 

[el_malo]

Thanks R-Y, you a are magnificent reporter.

We have some idea as to what their goals will be.

Now, we wait and see if the do it 

[dunbrine47]

- you will be able to wander over the island with your avatar interacting with people or using buildings (examples: speeches from the balcony of your palace, gambling with the states money in the casino or sunbathing on the beach; if you supervise the construction of a building personally, the constructors will work faster, if you visit a restaurants, more tourists will flock to it)
 

HHmmm........I smell an Assassination attempt.

[el_malo]

- you will be able to wander over the island with your avatar interacting with people or using buildings (examples: speeches from the balcony of your palace, gambling with the states money in the casino or sunbathing on the beach; if you supervise the construction of a building personally, the constructors will work faster, if you visit a restaurants, more tourists will flock to it)

I like this one 

Pontificating to the peons, squandering the nation's wealth, wearing my speedo's, kicking some lazying construction workers in the butt, and my own table... everywhere. 

What else may be possible... ordering my brave soldiers out on missions, signing edicts in my palace office, socializing with the island's diplomats?

Following my personal avatar around the island... definitely has possibilities 

- Oil will play a great role as most valuable ressource (though other industries seem to be still in, no examples given). Oil business is hard at the beginning, low demand and high up-front investments. Prices should change affected by demand and supply, allowing huge income later.

CK gets his oil.

Workers can go on strike. You can react by giving in to their demands, just waiting until they cannot afford the strike any more or using your military

Protestors among your people can stir up the masses

Polish up those riot control batons and put a hot wax on my tank, boys... daddy is coming home 

 

[Coconut Kid]

Thank you very much for your excellent report !

... Here is the info the article provides:

- you will be still able to customize your dictator ... as well as ... set the geography of your island. ... (as example, a skill called "Golden Tongue" is mentioned, which allows you to build up better relations with both the USA and UdSSR and makes your speeches towards your people more effective, ...)

Sounds like a new and improved "Charismatic" trait.

I know that I am a tiny minority when I object to "customizing" the dictator (no problem with customizing the geography), but I have posted on the topic quite extensively. Trying for a 'thumb-nail', it leads to creating totally weird characters with completely incompatable traits to GAME the set-up. That is, to try to make it easy make a score. Only so much can be done with cross-edits on traits. More time is spent on how to customize the dictator than on game play itself.

- you will be able to wander over the island with your avatar interacting ...

Sounds good, but I will believe it when I see it.

- Oil will play a great role as most valuable resource ...

They probably found that in the first developers' notes. I sure can not take credit for bringing it up.

- Workers can go on strike. You can react by giving in to their demands, etc. ...

The key to this is "what can they demand" ? I would also be interested in the potential size of the strike -- one factory building or island wide, or anything between?

- political challenges can be e.g. natives on your island - you can try to integrate them into your society, just taking their land might result in attacks on tourists or buildings. ...

I really don't like this. By 1950, the only unsubdued indigenous people were deep in the South American jungle well beyond a frontier line. Transporting that to a small island is ridiculous. Frankly, to me that sounds like catering to those Germans who love to play Cowboys & Indians.

There is a realistic political issue that is the quasi-slavery (peonage) in which the indigenous and the Blacks were held.

... - MP: you should be somehow able to visit the islands of other players, helping them with solving problems or trading ressources. The article talks of some kind of unknown online-service involved [I hope that doesn't mean you are forced to register there, keep internet connection during play or similar things!] ...
- Answers to questions from users on pcgames.de indicate that there are currently 60 buildings planned, that likely foreign policy or the political part in general will be improved (though nothing is set in stone here) and that the campaign is perhaps rather a sequence of single missions than a complex storyline. 

Very interesting. Since the information on the Internet indicates that an American distributor has not been chosen yet, and someone is answering questions on a German discussion forum -- we can see how important the market on this side of the Atlantic is.

Thanks again to Rebel-Yell !!

 

[el_malo]

I really don't like this. By 1950, the only unsubdued indigenous people were deep in the South American jungle well beyond a frontier line. Transporting that to a small island is ridiculous. Frankly, to me that sounds like catering to those Germans who love to play Cowboys & Indians.

There is a realistic political issue that is the quasi-slavery (peonage) in which the indigenous and the Blacks were held.

I got to agree with CK on this one.

The "native" thing... not a good fit for Tropico.

Some el Supremo vs. the Rural Peasantry... that is another ballgame 

[Coconut Kid]

...
- political challenges can be e.g. natives on your island - you can try to integrate them into your society, just taking their land might result in attacks on tourists or buildings. Again you can also use your military. Protestors among your people can stir up the masses; you can react by creating a secret police (which also helps vs. foreign spies), but should not supress people too much with it.
...

Pardon me for dissecting this paragraph a bit more. Let's set aside the "natives".

Then we come to Protestors (having nothing to do with the 'natives'). Of course, in T1 the protestors have a "radiated" effect on other 'units' in a zone. But the reaction by the player was limited to a decree - elimination, arrest or capture. Now there appears the hint that more sophisticated things are planned.

• El Presidente's Secret Police El Malo just fainted with joy! spooks at last!
• The Spooks take action against
  • Protestors
  • ?? Coup Plotters ??
  • ?? Rebels ??
  • ?? Malcontents (the most unhappy) ??
  • Foreign Spies
• If there are "foreign spies" IN Tropico, El Presidente must have spies in other countries, eh?

.
However, the spooks will not fool with ordinary citizens. Probably. Mostly.
Edit: I can see the 'Secret Police' operating the Colonial Fort Dungeon rather than the army. That's in harmony with the times even.

 

[el_malo]

El Presidente's Secret Police El Malo just fainted with joy!

Pop-Top and Take-2 liked to talk about Trop1 as a dictator game, but they left out many of the tools required by a "father to his people"... such as myself 

I am most heartened to see that this situation is being remedied 

it seems that no mention of Rebels was made in the interview 

Answers to questions fom users on pcgames.de indiacte that there are currently 60 buildings planned

Hhhhhmmmmm, that is less that Trop1-MM.

Sounds like a step back to me.

[TeamStar]

Great "review", Rebel-Yell!

You need to get a scanner soon and show us those screenies. Ask a friend to help you, pleeeeease. 

[Rebel-Yell]

Thank you all for the positive words. When I read a post here on Cafe Tropico regarding "Tropico 3" announced, I first though it would be just another request for such an announcement - I'm glad it is true (though I share many of the concerns uttered here...Tropico 1 digs quite deep and there is always the danger that things get simplified and replaced by shortlived eyecandy).

Regarding the posted graphics (again, no screenshots, as the reviewer emphasized in his final comment)...reading the rest of the magazine I stumbled across a preview "Grand Ages: Rome" which is from Kalypso as well. There are also some screenshots and they are similar to the graphics of the tropico article - after searching for more screenshots of GA:R in the Internet, I'm pretty sure that those graphics use the same engine (so they are likely a better hint on what Tropico 3 will look like then IR I mentioned in my first post). Perhaps Tropico 3 graphics will improve further, as someone from Kalypso said on their forum, that the ones posted in the PC Games are graphics from an early alpha version, which aren't meant to be pubslished widely...so I guess uploading them here wouldn't be in their interest and against copyright of the magazine as well

[Coconut Kid]

Tropico 1 digs quite deep and there is always the danger that things get simplified and replaced by shortlived eyecandy.

What a prescient statement.

All the hints so far are that the graphics engine used by Haemimont in its latest release, GA:R, will indeed be the basis of T3.

So there is some basis for concern that the new development is "front-loaded" on graphics. That gives a hint on why the number of buildings may be reduced -- less initial work and a basis for later "add-ons".

Who knows what engine is to be used for the subtle interaction of the units/people?

- there will be a campaign (currently 15 missions are planned)

I am particularly put-off by that comment in connection with a game "front-loaded" to graphics. That means to me that the player will be forced through 15 increasingly difficult quasi-tutorial sessions. Each of them will be baited with more complex graphics. 95% of the buyers will discard the game after they have conquered the "campaign". The 5% residue will complain for a while about being trapped in the rigid graphics, and then give up and go away.

I call to your attention the game with which the Paradise Island expansion was competing. It was published in Europe as Virtual Resort and in the US as Spring Break. It was designed and developed by "Deep Red", and the US distributor was "EIDOS Interactive". From its manual:

To start a brand new game, click start from the Main Menu. You are taken to the Map screen displaying the 12 scenarios in Spring Break. Only the first three scenarios are available when you first start Spring Break. As you meet the objectives and complete the current scenario the next one will be unlocked and become available.

Only the 'sandbox' mode was available to do 'city building' past-times.

T3 will probably be a bit more elaborate, but that is likely to be the format of the "campaign". Yes El Presidente, you will be able to advance through 15 more complex & beautiful islands as your uniform becomes more encrusted with medals and gold braid. The people on the islands will be simplistic in reaction and nature; little puppets. But they will be looking good!

But then I should not be negative. Most others will really like that challenge.

 

[Thurjack]

I know that I am a tiny minority when I object to "customizing" the dictator (no problem with customizing the geography), but I have posted on the topic quite extensively. Trying for a 'thumb-nail', it leads to creating totally weird characters with completely incompatable traits to GAME the set-up. That is, to try to make it easy make a score. Only so much can be done with cross-edits on traits. More time is spent on how to customize the dictator than on game play itself.

--------------------------------------


 Not to be off-topic, but I'd like to see a way to Randomize your dictator.  Roll the dice and see what you get!

[Coconut Kid]

Not to be off-topic, but I'd like to see a way to Randomize your dictator.  Roll the dice and see what you get!

That's not off topic at all. Once about six or so years ago, someone posted a system to do that. It did not catch on. 

[TeamStar]

Perhaps Tropico 3 graphics will improve further, as someone from Kalypso said on their forum, that the ones posted in the PC Games are graphics from an early alpha version, which aren't meant to be pubslished widely...so I guess uploading them here wouldn't be in their interest and against copyright of the magazine as well

If they published it on a magazine it's because they want people to see it. You'll be just extending their audience... and satisfying our curiosity at the same time. Don't make me travel to Germany, mate! 

[sethwbcl91]

I hope this doesn't come off as a stupid question, but do we know anything about the music of the game?

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

As far as I know there were talks with Daniel Indart to write the score for Tropico 3, but so far nothing is certain.

[TeamStar]

Ah, none the less but the Caribbean Music God himself. Nice!

[Coconut Kid]

As far as I know there were talks with Daniel Indart to write the score for Tropico 3, but so far nothing is certain.

Of course Indart's original score was a prize winner and the Paradise Island score was very nearly as good. The Pirate Cove score missed the mark by quite a bit.

I hope if he does the score, that he will include an unmistakeable 'Limbo' and at least one steel drum selection.

Also, I picked up an interesting CD: "Vodou - Ritual Possession of the Dead" Interra Records, Inc. Made in Belgium IN5734 -- 'Recorded live in Port Au Prince, Haiti by John Matarazzo & Logan Strand.' Some of it would be interesting interspersed with Indart's music.

 

[TeamStar]

That's hardly Caribbean music, more of African flavours...

[el_malo]

That's hardly Caribbean music, more of African flavours...

CK, be gentle...