Tropico 3 Article Translated

[Caribbean King]

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2F3dzone.bg%2Farticle%2Fview%2Fhaemimont_games_-_%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D1%2582%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%25D0%25B2%25D1%258E_%25D1%2587%25D0%25B0%25D1%2581%25D1%2582_2%23&sl=bg&tl=en&history_state0=

[TeamStar]

Nice catch, King!

What does "chovechetata" means?

[Caribbean King]

I'm not sure.   

[sethwbcl91]

Awww...so the buildings are supposed to have a depressing look....

 

[el_malo]

As architecture we have focused on the socialist, the screenshots you will see that prevail in the dark depressing colors typical of the period.

It is obvious that these clowns have no idea as to what they are doing.

There was no such thing as "socialist" architecture in the Caribbean in 1950.

If their inspiration is Castro's Cuba, someone needs to tell them that Castro did not come to power, until 1959.

They are trying to remake the Caribbean... to look like Communist Bulgaria.

Haemimont = phail 

[TeamStar]

Awww...so the buildings are supposed to have a depressing look....

Yeah, urban scenes looks too dirty to me, it takes off some of the old caribbean glamour.

[TeamStar]

It is obvious that these clowns have no idea as to what they are doing.

Yeh, you already said that like a zillion times, and you've probably called them clowns more times than they can stand. Look out, they might send some old school cold war agents to prevent you from playing Trop 3!

Haemimont = phail 

It's nice to have at the forum someone who can predict the future so wisely.

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

What does "chovechetata" means?

Here is a better translation to the two lines where "chovechetata" are mentioned:

Unlike in Grand Ages: Rome, where we had macro-level simulation and the people on the streets were more of a visualization to what was ahppening, in Tropico 3 the citizens will be the focus of the simulation.

The second sentence is used for reiteration and I have trouble understanding why the journalist used it like that. Probably something was shown at a screen at the time.

[el_malo]

Yeh, you already said that like a zillion times

The way that Haemimont is going, I'm sure it will be something they hear a lot of... in the days ahead.

you've probably called them clowns more times than they can stand

Who cares what they think or can stand.

Haemimont and kalypso are seeking my money... not the other way around.

It's nice to have at the forum someone who can predict the future so wisely.

It is easy to predict, the way that Haemimont is butchering Tropico.

[Tomica]

It's gonna be a great disappointment if it's gonna look like this Truly, they're making a scene from Bulgaria, not Carribes! 

[RedNovember1917]

It is obvious that these clowns have no idea as to what they are doing.

There was no such thing as "socialist" architecture in the Caribbean in 1950.

If their inspiration is Castro's Cuba, someone needs to tell them that Castro did not come to power, until 1959.

They are trying to remake the Caribbean... to look like Communist Bulgaria.

Haemimont = phail 

El_Malo, it is my opinion that the use of "Socialist" Architecture or "Soviet"-style Prefabricated Architecture could be an indication that Haemimont Games is taking into account the potentiality of what could physically result should a player partially or completely aligns him or herself with the U.S.S.R., or, if he or she signs an agreement with the U.S.S.R. that has within it a provision to allow for the importation of "Soviet"-manufactured prefabricated housing material at an affordable cost, as so to alleviate the housing shortage that is most definitely going to develop after the player in question begins a program of economic, social, cultural and political development. So, if that is the case, then, I would have to say the following: the fact that they are doing this should not be condemned nor ignored, because they are realistically taking into account the things that could happen in a game that is based on the context of a Non-industrialized Caribbean island in the early 1950's.

[Coconut Kid]

---, it is my opinion that the use of "Socialist" Architecture or "Soviet"-style Prefabricated Architecture could be an indication that Haemimont Games is taking into account the potentiality of what could physically result should a player partially or completely aligns him or herself with the U.S.S.R., or, if he or she signs an agreement with the U.S.S.R. that has within it a provision to allow for the importation of "Soviet"-manufactured prefabricated housing material at an affordable cost, as so to alleviate the housing shortage that is most definitely going to develop after the player in question begins a program of economic, social, cultural and political development. So, if that is the case, then, I would have to say the following: the fact that they are doing this should not be condemned nor ignored, because they are realistically taking into account the things that could happen in a game that is based on the context of a Non-industrialized Caribbean island in the early 1950's.

Red N,
Your rationale is quite good as far as it goes. However, I believe there are a couple of points you neglect.

One: While there were few Caribbean islands at the start of the 'Cold War' which were industrialized in "soviet" sense, all of them had several hundred years of history of subjugation to European colonial exploitation. Therefore they had a stock of existing buildings, and they were not simply blank slates to be filled with imported prefabricated soviet housing.

Two: A soviet style program of economic, social, cultural and political development simply does not start with a blank slate as to the customs of the people. Even the most block-headed state central planning will not ship that style of prefabricated housing halfway around the world before it ships the essential industrial components. Send heavy timbers to a deforested Caribbean island, and the population will steal them to burn to cook their food.

[RedNovember1917]

Here is my response to the two points that you have raised, Coconut Kid:

One: While there were few Caribbean islands at the start of the 'Cold War' which were industrialized in "soviet" sense, all of them had several hundred years of history of subjugation to European colonial exploitation. Therefore they had a stock of existing buildings, and they were not simply blank slates to be filled with imported prefabricated soviet housing.

That is correct. However, when I made this statement, I made this statement with this understanding in mind: despite the fact that the colonial and semi-colonial architecture of the Caribbean, due to its history, may not be an aesthetic match with prefabricated housing that is imported from what is now, in real life, the former U.S.S.R., the reality of this type of  situation will eventually bring into existence the demand of permanent shelter, and, this reality will require that the method of housing construction that would be used to satisfy this demand is a method that possesses the capability of being rapid in development, even if it means that that method of housing construction would end up negating the architectural history, or rather, heritage of that part of the world.

Two: A soviet style program of economic, social, cultural and political development simply does not start with a blank slate as to the customs of the people. Even the most block-headed state central planning will not ship that style of prefabricated housing halfway around the world before it ships the essential industrial components. Send heavy timbers to a deforested Caribbean island, and the population will steal them to burn to cook their food.

That is also correct. But, as I just said, the reality of this type of situation will eventually have to bring about a demand of permanent shelter, so, for instance, even if the player in question does not start his program of economic, social, cultural and political development with, let's say, the establishment of a few imported, "Soviet"-manufactured prefabricated housing, within a few years of that program's initiation, the demand will still emerge and it would have greater significance at that point than it would have had in the beginning, because the housing quality ratings amongst the population would be lower than it was in the beginning, and, because of such a low rating, the threat of demonstrations, mutiny within the ranks of the Tropican Army, popular uprisings and etc. will increase dramatically.

[el_malo]

@RN1917

I believe that neither CK, or myself, disagree with what you have said, except when it is dealing with the 1950 start-time.  In 1950, the Soviet influence, in the Caribbean, was absolutely zilch, nada, zero, etc.

The conditions you discuss, do have the potential to arise... later in the game.  IMO, the type of ruler that the player chooses, and the relationship with the USSR, should determine if, or when, this may occur.

[RedNovember1917]

I believe that neither CK, or myself, disagree with what you have said, except when it is dealing with the 1950 start-time.  In 1950, the Soviet influence, in the Caribbean, was absolutely zilch, nada, zero, etc.

The conditions you discuss, do have the potential to arise... later in the game.  IMO, the type of ruler that the player chooses, and the relationship with the USSR, should determine if, or when, this may occur.

If that is the case, then, I think you both are misunderstanding the approach that I have as it relates to this point: you see, I developed the aforementioned understanding with the conception that, when a player begins a game, the buildings that are indicative of "Soviet" Architecture would not be there, and, that would be introduced, gradually, upon the establishment of a favorable and developmental relationship with the U.S.S.R.

[el_malo]

RN1917, the problem is we do not really know what is intended.

From the little info that is available, it appears that the developer plans on starting with soviet-era buildings in place.

If this is true, it shows a definite lack of understanding and knowledge of the Caribbean in 1950.

The people that can clear-up our assumptions... have decided to blow-off the English language market and concentrate their efforts on obscure Euro media outlets.

The player-base that can make T3 a great success is of no meaning to them.

It is even to much trouble for the publisher and developer to create a T3 board on their existing forums.

After all, how much time and effort goes in to adding a new board... 2-3 minutes?

It is this attitude that has caused me to say, that T3 will be a commercial failure and that it deserves to be a failure.

If you want my money... don't diss me 

[Coconut Kid]

..., I developed the aforementioned understanding with the conception that, when a player begins a game, the buildings that are indicative of "Soviet" Architecture would not be there, and that would be introduced, gradually, upon the establishment of a favorable and developmental relationship with the U.S.S.R.

That certainly makes your conception more understandable.

However, it does raise the question of the remaining pre-existing buildings and the materials in the shacks.

I have to question the huge quantity of material needed to produce the number and size of the buildings after USSR support begins in order to reflect the "screenshots" as early provided.

This material would be shipped over a long distance, from supplies not that plentiful in the homeland, and constructed / assembled by less than optimal workers.

Even in 50 years, it is going to be a stretch to achieve the dreary, East European Communist look presented as the Tropican "socialist" look.

[Coconut Kid]

Latest from the link in the first post:

When we interview for 3 Tropico wrongly believe that it will be consumed only within Bulgaria and razprikazvahme more than needed. Намериха се хора от чужбина, които да го преведат и впоследствие това се превърна в проблем. They found people from abroad to translate it and then it became a problem. Оказа се, че сме дали информация за играта, която не е желателно да излиза публично на този етап от разработката и която нямаме право да пускаме в медиите. It turned out that we have information about the game, which is not desirable to go public at this stage of development and not run in the media.
От Haemimont Games най-учтиво молим интервюто и скрийншотите на Tropico 3 да бъдат премахнати от сайта. From Haemimont Games most politely ask to interview and screenshots Tropico 3 to be removed from the site. Грешката е изцяло наша. The error is entirely ours. В бъдеще сме готови на всякакви съвместни инициативи с 3dzone (включително за Tropico 3), но когато вече имаме право да ги правим. In the future, we are ready to any joint initiatives with 3dzone (including Tropico 3), but when we have the right to do.

С извинения, Haemimont Games. With apologies, Haemimont Games.

Since what was said has now gone away, it is hard to discuss -- don't you think?