Critique of new feature: Secret Police [briefly mentioned]

[Coconut Kid]

A critique includes both positive and negative points based on informed judgement, e.g. an instructor's comments on a student's creative effort.
Also new is the Secret Police who do not have a known building as headquarters. They are people with dirty numbers [??] that will [?? eliminate people ??] when President wishes. We intend to use the Secret Police for any interaction between foreign intelligence agencies as the CIA and the KGB secret police and El Presidente, and any others who will enter the island to try to extract information.

[Coconut Kid]

Mechanical translation:
For that it stands you in Tropico 3 free to establish a secret police, that brings country [your] enemies around the corner and lets look it like a suicide, but thoroughly also spy of other nations foundly makes.  If let on the other hand the agents too very of the line, it likes to be that the boys lose also the confidence into you and sabotage your projects or quite to your adversaries overflow and act as a double agent in the underground.


If this ambitious programming project really works, hurray!!

The oppressive El Presidente won't have much time to take the sun on beach because he will be so busy mico-managing his Secret Police.

       

[Coconut Kid]

I dedicate this [another] thread to El Malo ! He has been wishing for 'secret police', spies and emphasis of some military aspects. So here is a thread to discuss it. Maybe the developers will pick-up on a point or two.

 

It seems to me that the concept of secret police / spies (spooks) would not be all that hard to incorporate into the structure of the citizen units. I would hesitate to tinker with the tourist units.

I think such units would have to have a main occupation/cover to be secret. That is, they would have to look like ordinary people - no new avatars. That could be done by adding a secondary, invisible occupation. Invisible except to the El Presidente who employs them -- since we are having multi-players -- and a separate listing page in the Almanac. Consider that since they have a secondary income not counted in the Almanac pay distribution page, they could live high while looking ordinary. They could even be wearing the Unemployed Avatar and living in good housing and patronizing good entertainment places; but that would be suspicious -- who said spooks are brilliant, especially in Tropico.

Now these folks are not going to volunteer, so there has to be a pay system. It can feed off of the Swiss Bank account -- no money in the Swiss account, they will go over to the Rebels - that is, reverse all services.

What kind of services are they going to provide? Since they are 'home grown' (and the code has to have some limits), probably not very much. Radiate a great amount of respect for El Presidente - that is scare the crap out of others within five or so tiles. Give a 'Circle Window' flash on the identity of a Protestor within ten tiles of them. Apply an algorhym of 'loyality' to army members they meet in an entertainment or religion or multiple housing unit & give a 'Circle Window' flash on those who fail (not for everyone for goodness sake - that would blow their mind code). Take over from the Army responsibility for carrying out the "Eliminate" Decree (and that's a lot of code). Actually it's a lot of code overall.

Implementation:

• Upgrade the Palace to add a pop-up pseudo employment building
  • Limited Number of Employment Slots (Max 25 ?)
  • Standard pay setting
  • Employment managed in the standard manner; well, perhaps a warning on firing.
• Most of the other coding is implicit in the description above.
• Services Provided
  • Radiate Respect
  • Record Identity of Prostestors
  • Test Army members to eliminate coups
  • Carry out "Eliminate" Decrees
• Suffer a Liberty penality and an increase in the Intellectual and Environmental Factions.
• Also suffer an increase in either the Communist or Capitalist Factions - which ever one you are not aligned with -- or perhaps both if you pretend neutality.

.

At least a bit of food for thought even if nothing results.

 

[Coconut Kid]

In some of the most recent screenshots, there are some avatars of men in black suits (without hats) carrying briefcases. They don't seem to be connected with any T1 avatar. Some folks are wondering if they are the "Secret Police".

I certainly hope not.

 

[Servant Corps]

In some of the most recent screenshots, there are some avatars of men in black suits (without hats) carrying briefcases. They don't seem to be connected with any T1 avatar. Some folks are wondering if they are the "Secret Police".

I certainly hope not.

 

If they are though...I do hope they act like this guy.





Very subtle.

EDIT: And those are webcomics from Irregular Webcomic. I thought they were funny, and would represent the 'secret' men with black suits that could be in T3 and their inconspicuous nature. I hope you aren't offended by those webcomics...

[Coconut Kid]

It's true that Haemimont has to be careful about making the Secret Police TOO smart. Check out:

Steve Jackson Games
VS
The Secret Service
http://www.sjgames.com/SS/

That's the U.S. Secret Service folks. 

[el_malo]

One of my favorite "political intrigue" games was published by SJG.

It is a two-player game called "COUP."

It has been out of print for many years.

[Coconut Kid]

... It is a two-player game called "COUP." ...

Have you scanned any of the art work? Especially the "Maximum Leader"  -- there's a good rendition of a "spook" on the box cover.

T3 should allow two or three protesters working together to pull over one of El Presidente's statues.

 

Please note that I edited a couple of the early posts in this thread to make the order and presentation more logical.

[el_malo]

In some of the most recent screenshots, there are some avatars of men in black suits (without hats) carrying briefcases. They don't seem to be connected with any T1 avatar. Some folks are wondering if they are the "Secret Police".

I certainly hope not.

 

With my twisted sense of humor, I would have the Secret Police, in the fanciest, gold-braid laden uniforms in the game 

There is nothing secret, about the Secret Police, in banana republics 

[Servant Corps]

There is a 7-player "political intrigue" board game called JUNTA, made by West End Games. You play as a member of a government junta, and your goal is to launder as much US aid as possible into your bank account.

EDIT: JUNTA is said to be a bad game with great memories. The main flaw is its overly complex wargame rules for military coups.

EDIT2: It is also possible to play JUNTA with less than 7 players of course. 7 Players is the ideal though.

[jason_bourne]

In Tropico if President loses elections or in case of coup ........ the game ends. I think it would be nice if President can go into jungles like rebels and fight back. Some guys from his loyal factions will also support him.  Or become a citizen and campaign for his return to power. There can be time limit for this like he has to win next election or conduct a Coup or Rebellion within 5-7 years. He can do a Coup If militarists supports him.

[Coconut Kid]

@ jason_bourne

That's off-topic for Secret Police!

When you have a flash of an idea, please remember that you can start your own thread and should if it has nothing to do with an existing thread.

 

[Coconut Kid]

..., I would have the Secret Police, in the fanciest, gold-braid laden uniforms in the game ...

Thanks for bringing me back to ground. I agree, but at least we should try to convince Haemimont to put them in trench coats (gray but stained), the uniform of the invisible (teenager). With the change to a gray coat, the hat has to black -- as in the black hats vs the white hats in cowboy lore. Black hat, dark glasses, gray trench coat and shower flip-flops.

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

The guys in black with the briefcases are not part of the secret police. They have a much more boring job. If you could see the from a closer angle, you would recognize what that job is (I think).

[Coconut Kid]

The guys in black with the briefcases are not part of the secret police. They have a much more boring job. If you could see them from a closer angle, you would recognize what that job is (I think).

Bureaucrat ?

But brown hats? 

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

Heh. Not THAT boring.

Hats of that type are usually brown.

[Coconut Kid]

Really, the people with the briefcases are just bankers.
about 5 hours ago from web

El_Prez twitters the solution.

 
However, I'll miss the pin-stripe suits and corporate bellies.

 

[Coconut Kid]

With my twisted sense of humor, I would have the Secret Police, in the fanciest, gold-braid laden uniforms in the game 
There is nothing secret, about the Secret Police, in banana republics 

Well there certainly seems to be in T3. We haven't heard a thing for some time now.

I'm beginning to think they are going to handled like Sunflowers handled "Lodge" activities in 'ANNO 1701' - the spy, poisoner, saboteur, etc. You never really "saw" them; you only suffered the effects.

There have been brief mentions:

• The secret police will take over assassinations from the army
• When diplomatic relations go below a cut-off, the USSR & the US will send in their secret police
• Your secret police have to counter USSR/US agents, but double agents are possible

There has been no indication that there will be units with avatars for either side. It may be just an abstract effect in the standard format of a percentile up or down on some game activity.

That would make assassinations far less dramatic -- they would hardly be different from ordinary deaths as far as the family was concerned. But less game-play fun for the blood-thirsty player.

But I forget. The developers have been busy getting the buildings up to speed, and just now are beginning to concentrate (with the Beta testers) on the population. How could I overlook that?

 

[Lyubo_Haemimont]

Two corrections:

1. The army will still perform assassinations.
2. You will be able to select your secret agents.

[Coconut Kid]

Two corrections:
1. The army will still perform assassinations.
2. You will be able to select your secret agents.

Thank you for that information!

I'm glad the army is still up for assassinations. My hopes would be for more resources so the time lapse from signing the Edict to action would be less. Perhaps all or a select part could be assigned to this task from the army (generals vs soldiers), regular police, and secret agents. Time is of the essence and efficiency is the motto -- of the "Protect and Serve" defense forces of my administration of the Republic of Tropico.

I am delighted with the news that I shall be able to choose my "secret agents"! I shall have the most efficient secret agent force in the Caribbean. Four of five shall be Showgirls; the fifth shall be a Fisherman, a Pit Boss, a Barmaid or a Dockworker. Depending on the size of the force, perhaps the odd Teamster or Taxi-driver will fit in. My secret agent force shall be known as The Eye which is watching you.

[Coconut Kid]

From Developer Interview Part 3:

4. ElHoneyBadger (International), ElPresidenteLobo (International):
Will there be assassinations in the game? Can El Presidente be assassinated?

Some subversive elements will try to make assassination attempts on the life of El Presidente, but he is tougher than he looks, and the long-reaching arm of the Secret Police will protect him. A cunning Presidente will be able to even gain political leverage thanks to the attempts on his life.