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Coconut Kid
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« on: 12/29/08 at 11:56 AM »

Flash of Steel

Here is one with negative stuff:

http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/11/14/tropico-3/

"Flash of Steel is the blog of Troy S. Goodfellow. [He has] been writing about computer games in one place or another since 2000 with a focus on historical strategy games. This blog has that same focus, but will also deal with other gaming issues as they arise. So this is a strategy gaming blog, except for when it is not a strategy gaming blog."
« Last Edit: 06/19/09 at 10:15 AM by Coconut Kid » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 01/14/09 at 05:45 PM »

I didn't enjoy the news, but I sure liked your comment.
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« Reply #2 on: 01/14/09 at 11:28 PM »

CK was nice to Haemimont Games... I ripped them a new one.

These clowns have no clue as to what Tropico should be.
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« Reply #3 on: 01/15/09 at 10:08 AM »

I fear El Malo may be more accurate than we would wish.

I wandered around a bit with 'Google' and came across an interesting essay:
Social Realism in Gaming
by Alexander R. Galloway

http://gamestudies.org/0401/galloway/

It's a bit deep, but I think it is worth reading. I keep babbling about verisimilitude as a desireable condition. In other words, I like a game that has some connection with the real world as opposed to being based on wizards and fantasy monsters.

Galloway: "One of the most central theoretical issues in gaming is how and in what way one can make connections between the gaming world and the real world, both from the inside outward in the form of affective action, and from the outside inward in the form of realistic representation."

"Within the world of gaming it is possible to divide games into two piles: those that have as their central conceit the mimetic reconstruction of real life, and those resigned to fantasy worlds of various kinds. ... Thus games are generally either realistic or fantastical. Expressing the perspective of game designers, Bruce Shelley writes that realism is a sort of tool that can be leveraged for greater effect in gameplay, but is ultimately non-crucial: 'Realism and historical information are resources or props we use to add interest, story and character to the problems we are posing for the player. That is not to say that realism and historic fact have no importance, they are just not the highest priority.' But realistic narrative and realistic representation are two different things."

But you can pick out the key ideas that apply to Tropico for yourself.


I am really discouraged by the insistence that Tropico is a "city builder". I see it as a political simulator with building construction as one of several peripheral activities. The greatest problem is that most players have been trained to play "city builders" and can't get out of the box. In my opinion, a 'realistic' city builder would force the player to deal with the detail of the utiiities (power, water, sewer, trash, & traffic) and not just slapping down buildings hither, thither and yon. For example in 'Tropico the City Builder', the citizens would require both food and water supplied by the small fountains. Additionally, both citizens and tourists would poop and quite a lot too. Shacks would include an open ditch a couple of tiles long. All other buildings would generate proportionate open ditches unless within a radius of a two-tier sewer system. Guess what the rebels would like to blow-up. Talk about pollution. Would there be those packed rows of hotels if the tourist poop had to be cared for?

It's interesting how game discussion board threads spin out of control with "suggestions" that posters think will add realism. They are usually meaningless because they are: out of scale, out of time-line, a huge chore to implement, or simply unrealistic.

Additionally, there is nothing that says scenarios may not involve a "built-up" island with entirely political and economic goals that involves little building.

 Roll Eyes Undecided
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« Reply #4 on: 01/15/09 at 01:08 PM »

Now I think you're focusing too much on political gaming. Tropico has other charms as well, like starting a glorious path to success from an unskillful bunch of farmers, build a solid treasury through industry, designing the ultimate tourists destination in the caribbean, or build the happiest paradise on earth.
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« Reply #5 on: 01/15/09 at 02:18 PM »

Quote
In my opinion, a 'realistic' city builder would force the player to deal with the detail of the utiiities (power, water, sewer, trash, & traffic)

Like City Empires, except for the sewer & traffic bits... a text-base, online game  Grin

It does have dealing with the recreation, police and fire protection.

I guess online games are moving ahead of PC games  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #6 on: 01/16/09 at 08:10 AM »

Now I think you're focusing too much on political gaming. ...

I'm sorry if you see it that way.

What I'm trying to counter is the evident push to drop the political aspect to the most elementary level.

There is the strong appearance that the developers are targeting a market comprised of people young enough that they have no recollection of the 1950/60 period and have not even had to read much history of it. The comment in the German magazine about having a "native" population living separately is shocking.

Further, I have the feeling that they are heading down the path of the generalized animations as in the 'Anno' series.

Hey, I don't care what kind of building goals you wish to set for your games. I don't wish to exclude them. But I am concerned about the kind of computer world the game runs in.

Some time ago I was looking for a "builder" game so I bought "Settlers IV" ; I really didn't like it. In fact, I tried it only two or three times. But it has all the bells and whistles that the developer's previous games seem to have and that we can expect in T3.
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« Reply #7 on: 01/16/09 at 01:32 PM »

Isn't the Tropico population really tiny though? (Only like 100-500 people depending on starting conditions) Perhaps if the starting population is 200 or less then there's a small chance of natives existing deep in the woods who are extremely poor but not living like it's the 1400's or whatever. It isn't too strange although I doubt natives would be isolated from things. (They presumably had extensive contact with the Spanish, which thankfully leaves out the rather disturbing possibility of natives getting sick and dying upon first contact with Tropicans)
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« Reply #8 on: 01/16/09 at 01:52 PM »

Isn't the Tropico population really tiny though? ...

As in lots of games, each Tropican, both citizen and tourist probably ought to be considered "representational" of a much larger number of actual people -- IF the game were an actual simulation of the 'real' world.

Even though the game is not attempting a serious "simulation", it probably helps players to consider the population as more 'representational' than 'actual' for many purposes.
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« Reply #9 on: 06/19/09 at 09:05 AM »

Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/5253850/tropico-3-coming-to-america

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« Reply #10 on: 06/19/09 at 09:27 AM »

Game Zone

http://pc.gamezone.com/gamesell/p37927.htm

Updated with latest avatar screenies; but no comments.
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« Reply #11 on: 06/19/09 at 10:07 AM »

city builder games

http://www.citybuildergames.com/index.php?board=208.0

A nicely formatted, friendly place - especially for those who dote on the building layout aspect of Tropico.
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« Reply #12 on: 08/08/09 at 08:23 AM »

Interview with Boian Spasov

http://gry.o2.pl/publicystyka_special/?co=pokaz&id=182

The English version is the white on black column on the right.
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« Reply #13 on: 08/11/09 at 09:59 AM »

CK was nice to Haemimont Games... I ripped them a new one.

These clowns have no clue as to what Tropico should be.

I've been fortunate enough to play Tropico 3 recently, and I can tell you that these 'clowns' are doing a good job of making this game just like T1. I haven't seen the natives, there's not really a cowboys and indians thing going on, and if you like the first one, you'll like this one. Just picture the first one with better controls, better music and better graphics.

I loved the first one and I wanted to see a game that did it justice, and Tropico 3 does T1 justice.
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« Reply #14 on: 08/11/09 at 10:00 AM »

Oh, and there are cars... Finally.
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« Reply #15 on: 08/11/09 at 10:50 AM »

I've been fortunate enough to play Tropico 3 recently, ... Just picture the first one with better controls, better music and better graphics. ...

You sound like a Beta player violating the Non-Disclosure Agreement.

I'll tell you straight out -- Better Music, My A S S!

The graphics may be technically better, they have next to nothing to do with the Caribbean.
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« Reply #16 on: 08/11/09 at 11:15 AM »

I've been fortunate enough to play Tropico 3 recently, ... Just picture the first one with better controls, better music and better graphics. ...

You sound like a Beta player violating the Non-Disclosure Agreement.

I'll tell you straight out -- Better Music, My A S S!

The graphics may be technically better, they have next to nothing to do with the Caribbean.

I really can't wait for you to hear the music in this game, I'm very sure you'll tell me you were wrong : )
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« Reply #17 on: 08/16/09 at 09:23 AM »

Tropico 3 at IGN:

http://au.pc.ign.com/objects/143/14327511.html

Tropico 3 at GameSpy (says release date is Sept 04):

http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/tropico-3/

Tropico 3 at GameStats:

http://www.gamestats.com/objects/143/14327511/
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« Reply #18 on: 08/16/09 at 09:49 AM »

For Something Different:

A Spanish Site - 3D Juegos:

http://www.3djuegos.com/juegos/avances/5227/1466/0/tropico-3/
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