Bridges

[Lowpriest]

There is one draw back to the bridge idea.  Besides draw bridges and trolls under the bridges the one drawback would be how dadgumed long they would take to build.  Darn lazy construction workers.  I call those guys the R & R construction company.

[Junta_Joe]

Alas, here we go again. Always a T, L, & D problem at the core. Nothing changes.

Make a point to look back in this thread for my solution to the dockworker problem. That will save you at least a few grey hairs.

[Wordmeister Bob]

"R & R Construction company"!
That's great!  
I'm busting a gut here  

[Lowpriest]

Oh and Bob, as you know, no self-respecting teamster on Tropico would ever take the shortest route so thus the bridge would only look cool and get tourists.  LOL

[Wordmeister Bob]

LOL Priest, that's so true.

I guess sometimes looking cool and getting tourists will just have to be enough.  

[Lowpriest]

It works for the Virgin Islands!

[Junta_Joe]

Just bumping an oldie but goody back to the top. Check the prior page out for a cure to the dockworker problem.

[Peron]

 No need for bumpin' if the thread's jumpin'.

[Coconut Kid]

Junta_Joe frequently referred
to this thread, but
never provided a link.

... I have only had one totally hopeless game in the two months I have had Tropico. It happened that I had a huge inlet bay. Docks on one side, farms on the other.  ...  I made a point from then on that I would not let a terrain feature be an unexpected challenge. ... When I want terrain to be a negative, I set it up that way. What I'm saying is that when I start a new game I know the challenges I'm in the mood for. Anything else tends to kill the fun.  ...  

I'm not really sure what JJ IS saying about the shape of the island. What he is saying about his style of fun is clear -- he wants nothing unexpected. I have to doubt that the "huge inlet bay" was the result of the map generation program; it was almost certainly the result of his editorial terraforming. The standard for generated islands is that they are almost round whether large or small and never have really deep indentations. That has a direct relationship with the pathfinding system used for the people and for the ocean vehicles. Cafe Dave discovered that ships go crazy and sail across land when there is not a strip of water all around the edge of the map. The discussion seems to indicate that the "Water Coverage" variable may cause larger inlets, and I have not looked for that.

Ole: I've noticed that bays are most common on random maps set to have more than the default amount of water [coverage].

I built a couple of 'land" bridges on an experimental map. I built a long inlet to simulate the mouth and inland course of a large river. My experiment also included small streams and ponds. Believe me, they are left out because they really screw-up all pathfinding. People starved to death even when they were free to go around the inlet\river. My experiment showed perfectly that people having to go any distance beyond 100 tiles will go to a circular band parallel to the outer circumference of the island. There they run great risks of breaking the pathfinding loop and getting stuck in a repeating, endless loop. They will NOT go toward the center of the island to avoid an obstacle.

Long narrow or crazy shaped islands throw a great strain on the pathfinding algorithm. The game engine recognizes only one island on the map no matter the shape. So a series of small islands connected with narrow strips of land will not operate as separate islands connected with bridges, but rather a crazy strain for path finding. I suggest such experiments are a waste of time; there are other, better (more interesting) challenges.

[Coconut Kid]

Junta_Joe's
classic one system
fits all solution.

...  Here's a good one: place a dock and run sand under gangplank (except under the cross bar). It is possible to run road under buildings. Run the road from the dock office to the end of the sand under the dock. Place road three squares deep all round the dock (like to where the teamsters drop off). Pave the whole area. You have never seen such efficient dock workers. One dock worker will completely load 40 units of goods in nothing flat. That and paying them 1 extra peso a month will solve all dock problems permanently. One big headache cured. Remember: dock, sand, then road. Only works in that order. Try it out and let me know what you think.

Now his original post about this is located.

[Coconut Kid]

...
Things I allow myself to do:
...
3) Use Rapido. I never build normally. Ever. You still have to pay for it. The game designers assumed we would just build out from the center. This is too limiting and displeases my sense of order. If you try to spread things out, nothing ever gets built. You should see some of my comments in other threads on docks, teamsters, and contruction workers. Everyone complains about this. If the game designers fix this flaw, I would gladly quit using Rapido.
...
A final note. Everyone has a comment about what is right or wrong with the game. I know that Poptop has people reading this site. Yet, we never get feedback except about things that crash the game. If they plan to do an expansion pack, it would be nice hear their thoughts and plans. ...

This is a very good summary of JJ's approach to the game. Whatever displeases his 'sense of order and correctness' must be a flaw. The designers are obligated to "fix" things to suit him; or to enter into a debate with him about the structural design of the game. He sluffed off any responsibility he might have to discover more about how the game actually works. Besides calling accounting for travel time a flaw, he also promoted the error that the presence or absence of 'indoor workers' made no difference in the productivity of their building.

Although he was vocal on this board and spent time on promoting expansion packs; in balance, he probably did more harm than good in helping others understand gameplay. He wished for feedback from PopTop but the positions he took put them in the position of answering questions of the genre of "why don't you stop making the mistakes I see so clearly and fix them?" I suspect their silence was simply forbearance from calling him what he is.