Bridges

[Wordmeister Bob]

I'd like to be able to build a bridge across the mouth of a bay or inlet, so my people don't have to spend months walking the long way around.
Just a thought. (Probably not an original one, but Oh well...)

[Darkstar]

thats a good idea and would be really useful for an xpack or T2

[Junta_Joe]

Simple. Use the map editor and make a land bridge. Just make sure your dock isn't inside!

[Wordmeister Bob]

God, I didn't even think of that, duh.  
Thanks, Joe  

[Peron]

 Using an editor isn't a solution for everyone for everything.

 I'd rather have the option to build a bridge.

 I'll use the editor to create a map, but I am all for more in-game options.

[Junta_Joe]

I admit bridges would be nice. I have only had one totally hopeless game in the two months I have had Tropico. It happened that I had a huge inlet bay. Docks on one side, farms on the other.

Economy never really got off the ground. People starved and rebelled. Managed to last the fifty years by the skin of my teeth. Mostly by importing new soldiers to whack my old rebellious ones. CHALLENGING.  I think my score was 65! I made a point from then on that I would not let a terrain feature be an unexpected challenge. Economy, factions, food shortages, coup attempts are OK. You have tools in the game to deal with these. When I want terrain to be a negative, I set it up that way. What I'm saying is that when I start a new game I know the challenges I'm in the mood for. Anything else tends to kill the fun.

On the original subject...Bridges would be nice for  multi-island maps. I have seen some threads on this. One of them said it might cause pathing problems. I might just set up a low challenge game with a couple of islands connected by a single or double lane land bridge. Put resources on one side and industry on another and see how it goes. Will post results in a few days in this thread.

I think everyone wants to put the rich tourists and housing on one island and put the smoke belchers on another. The peeps still wander around anyway. They will still complain. All they have to do is put polluters next to the downwind coast. Works like a charm.

[Peron]

 you make a good point.

 I should allow myself the ability to "tweak" an aspect or two of a game as long as I am enjoying it.

 Seems like one CAN be too anal about not wanting to "cheat".

 

[Wordmeister Bob]

I've been coming to the same conclusion. If a feature isn't available in the game, but something close to the desired effect can be achieved by using the editor, I'll go ahead and do it.

BUT...

At the same time, for my own satisfaction I prefer to keep it "realistic" or "plausible". (You can win at solitaire every time if you cheat, but it becomes pointless and so not fun.)
That's why I don't use RAPIDO or MUERTE, for example.

SO...

Here is what I have decided: Until bridges become available in the game, if I want to cross the water I will use the editor to make a land bridge, without compunction...

HOWEVER...

I will then use EXACTO to reduce my treasury by an amount equal to what I feel is a reasonable cost for such a bridge, just as if I was paying for the construction. (I figure tentatively about 3 times the cost of a road; about $600 per square.) If there's not enough in the treasury, then Sorry my Presidente, try again later.

That's not too anal, is it?  
Not ideal, but at least it gets me what I need while still keeping it somewhat "real".

[Junta_Joe]

You've got the idea. I have used Exacto reduce my treasury  before when I have used other cheats to help me out. Best example was when I was really busy and the goats had stripped the land dry.I just replanted the grass and docked my self $10,000. The amount was arbitrary. It just felt like the right amount.
I do not like to abuse the cheats for the reason you mentioned. How do you test your skill if you fix everything?
Things I allow myself to do:
1) Adjust the topography on day one only. This is my biggest allowance. I base my changes on the type of scenario I want to play. I, also, get rid of ludicrous land features that would kill any chance you have. These tend to be only the inlet bays and mountains that completely surround your palace with no room for even a modest town.
2) Move the palace or archiological sites. If the game would let you do this normally, I would.
3) Use Rapido. I never build normally. Ever. You still have to pay for it. The game designers assumed we would just build out from the center. This is too limiting and displeases my sense of order (I am an engineer by trade...what a shock, huh). If you try to spread things out, nothing ever gets built. You should see some of my comments in other threads on docks, teamsters, and contruction workers. Everyone complains about this. If the game designers fix this flaw, I would gladly quit using Rapido.
Things that are not allowed:
1) Muerte. Factions are integral to the game. You have many options in the game to deal with opposition. I have to admit that I've taken out granny's who keep building shacks when I have plenty of free housing. I use the edicts, however, and pay the consquences.
2)Pesos. I admit I tried this a couple of times when I first bought the game. It was not very satisfying. This is definitely cheating. I would like to see a new edict where you can borrow some cash from the world bank.

A final note. Everyone has a comment about what is right or wrong with the game. I know that Poptop has people reading this site. Yet, we never get feedback except about things that crash the game. If they plan to do an expansion pack, it would be nice hear their thoughts and plans. They did make comments on building rotation. Not everyone was pleased, but we got to understand where they were coming from. I still think they should make an exception for the airport, however. Other than that subject they keep quiet. Like silence is going to increase our enthusiasm to buy the sequel. My guess is that they were caught unawares by the games success. We will get an expansion pack way too late to ride the wave of enthusiasm the game is generated. After a year any game gets dull (some last me a week at most). Keeping us updated would keep some flames burning.
Whew! That's my ten cents and then some.

[Junta_Joe]

I just finished the scenario where I drew in land bridges between two islands. Quit it in disgust is more like it. I'm sure I could have tweaked it a little, but, it would not have fixed the main problem. My docks stayed empty, people blew off work before they even got there, and my input/output cues were really screwy. If I go into the details, I might toss my monitor out the window. Best forgotten. It would make for a ultra hard scenario.

Until Poptop refines the pathing algorithm situation, I would not suggest they put bridges into the game. Short ones might be possible. I used a forty square length on mine that was two squares wide. Congestion nightmare. I'm going back to  simply oppressing my peeps for a game or two.

[Wordmeister Bob]

Thanks for the info, Joe.  
It's something I've been wondering about, but haven't had a chance to try myself.
Appreciate you taking the time to do the research.

(I still can't bring myself to use RAPIDO,though; I think planning/deploying construction workers is an integral part of the strategic challenge of the game   )

[Olle_Petersson]

I've noticed that bays are most common on random maps set to have more than the default amount of water.
So to avoid them just use an overall smaller map.

I also think of bridges as 1-3 squares in length, not more. (Just look at the docks when more than one dock worker loads a single ship...)

Cheers
Olle

[Wordmeister Bob]

Good point, Olle.    But I like the bays, from a visual standpoint. They add some interest to the appearance of an island. Plus I don't want to always be stuck playing small maps  

I just did a quick experiment, slapped a land bridge across the middle of a bay and stuck a pub on the far side to attract people. The "bridge" was about 15 squares long by 3 wide, and peeps started using it right away. I saw a few teamsters pushing goods across even though it wasn't the most direct route to the dock.
So while it may not be suitable for multi-island maps (as per Joe's test), it looks like it could work for my purposes. Worth playing around with some more, anyway. (Although by my arbitrary pricing it would have cost me $27,000!   Might have to give myself a discount...   )

[Junta_Joe]

I charge myself $50 per square to add or subtract land after Jan 1950. Setup is free as long as it is natural and doesn't change the setup parameters (ie: adding trees to a "sparse" island). I find find the flat rate charge useful for industrial purposes. Comes in handy for making peninsulas to hide a electrical plant or squeak in the edge of a runway. My favorite use is to make small islands for my power relay stations to keep them out of beauty areas.

Here's a good one: place a dock and run sand under gangplank (except under the cross bar). It is possible to run road under buildings. Run the road from the dock office to the end of the sand under the dock. Place road three squares deep all round the dock (like to where the teamsters drop off). Pave the whole area. You have never seen such efficient dock workers. One dock worker will completely load 40 units of goods in nothing flat. That and paying them 1 extra peso a month will solve all dock problems permanently. One big headache cured. Remember: dock, sand, then road. Only works in that order. Try it out and let me know what you think.

[Wordmeister Bob]

Joe, you're brilliant!  
Works like a charm. I'm humbled by your wisdom.

*feels like Kwai Chang Caine sitting at the feet of Master Po*

But Master, isn't $50/square kind of cheap, seeing as a mere road costs ±$200/square? Not to be contentious, but it seems to me terraforming should cost more than just paving.  :-/

[Junta_Joe]

Is it terraforming or just shoveling sand? I guess I'm used to that word in conjuction with creating breathable atmosphere and fertile land on distant worlds.

Your point is valid however. Low prices could lead to abuse. Of course then, we are policing ourselves.

El Presidente henceforth decrees that adding sand shall now cost $200 per square (the little ones, not those humongus ones) on the island of Tropico.

Liked that dock trick did you? I was overjoyed myself. Look at those peons move! I hope everyone tries it once.

[Peron]

 OK I still won't terraform.  Maybe it's because I'm just too lazy.

 I will admit to trying the road to (and under) the docks (which were already built on fairly level ground) and can attest to a noticeable increase in the efficiency of the workers.

 I have paid the dockworkers 1 extra peso above the rest for some time (don't remember when  began that), and also include some other workers (pub and other entertainment employees).

 Interesting stuff guyz...  but you are sure way down to the micromanagement level.

 Scary.  

[Olle_Petersson]

... Plus I don't want to always be stuck playing small maps  

Thanks, but I think you misunderstood me a little.

What I meant was that instead of having a large map with lots of water, you have a somewhat smaller map with the same amount of land.

You can still play a huge island, just don't have so much water around it...

... But if you like your bays, then never mind.

Cheers
Olle

[Junta_Joe]

A good dictator wants to try his hand at all kinds of maps and scenarios. Variety is the key to this game's success.

[Wordmeister Bob]

Thanks, but I think you misunderstood me a little.

What I meant was that instead of having a large map with lots of water, you have a somewhat smaller map with the same amount of land.

You can still play a huge island, just don't have so much water around it...

Ah, I get it now. Thanks for the clarification, Olle.
Sometimes I'm a little slow. (Alright, I'm always a little slow.   :-/ )

As Joe says, I like to try all different things, just to see what happens. But thanks for the tip; now I know what to do if I want to avoid the long walks without using a "cheat".

Junta_Joe wrote:

El Presidente henceforth decrees that adding sand shall now cost $200 per square (the little ones, not those humongus ones) on the island of Tropico.

"As you wish!"  

BTW, Peron: Interesting tidbit about the extra pay for dockworkers. I usually pay dockworkers, teamsters and construction workers all the same; but I'll try that next time and see what happens.
(I have to resort to micromanagement because my macromanagement usually fails abysmally   )

(Whew, I think I'm finally caught up...)

[Lowpriest]

All right, I caved.  I want bridges and trains.  Okay, I feel better.  Good points though, but lets face it a bridge would be so cool and you could make it a toll bridge aimed at tourists or something.

[Junta_Joe]

If done right, this game could have successful add-ons for several years. Throw me a bone every 8 to 10 months and I would give up sleep altogether. A little nap at work here or there....

Better not turn any of my co-workers on to this game. Who would finish my work!

[Wordmeister Bob]

ROFL Joe!
I've been b*tching lately about this stupid planet we live on, with its paltry 24-hour days. I think 27 would be about right; I could probably get everything done if I just had 3 extra hours a day to play Tropico.  

Lowpriest, ultimately I agree with you about the bridges. I could do without trains, but I really like your toll bridge idea. A yacht dock on one side, tourist attractions on the other... could be a nice boost for the ol' treasury.  

[Junta_Joe]

You're in luck Bob. I just so happens that tidal action is slowing the earth down as we speak. In a mere century's time you shall have an extra minute or so. Just think of it as your own personal bonus minute. Use it wisely!

[Wordmeister Bob]

LOLOL!!
That's great news!
(But I just used up my extra minute laughing, so now I gotta get to bed before I can think of a clever and witty comment...)