Here's a few dumb questions:

[Kislath]

I just discovered this game last month, and I'm already looking very forward to the expansion pack.

I've noticed a great deal of improvements that people want, and indeed it almost seems that POPTOP shipped Tropico LONG before it was even close to being finished.

The editor came as standard equipment on this recent copy I bought, and I haven't noticed the bugs that many of you have been complaioning about...maybe some of them have already been fixed?

Anyway, on to the dumb questions:

1---is it possible that there could be a second expansion pack later? I think that a few smaller expansions which don't change the game fundamentally but simply add a few things, like tourist attractions, would be very simple to produce. I'd even like to see things like -- "Marina", "Waverunner Rentals", "Scuba Resort", "Fishing Charter", "Dolphin Cruises", "Pleasure Boat Rentals" & "Parasailing" availible for download somewhere. If not availible for download, it would be nice if we could at least buy them.
Otherwise, are there any programmers in this bunch who could make some aftermarket add-ons like these?

Other buildings would be nice, too. I've seen a few mentioned on the Paradise Island site, but there's not much to go on. That leads to the next question:

It's almost December as I type this. Is a final list of new structures availible yet, anywhere? I'd really like to know what to expect.

I know that there are a great number of things that you all have suggested to POPTOP, and I also know that we'll be very lucky to see any of them. In fact, I noticed the addition of natural disasters to the expansion. Great, just what we need..something to ruin gameplay instead of enhance it.
I sure hope there's an option to turn them off as desired.

[MadamPresident]

> could make some aftermarket add-ons like these?

I dont think so. The data is contained in PK2 format, the
details of which none of us know.

> of natural disasters to the expansion. Great, just what we
> need..something to ruin gameplay instead of enhance it.
> I sure hope there's an option to turn them off as desired.

Yeah, I'm not wild about disasters either. Actually the expansion pack sounds like a cross betweek holiday island and simcity.

I think of Tropico as more of a "people" game. I wish they had more units other than the tourists.

[the_neutron_bomb]

yeah, I just discovered the ex pack about a week ago.  I for one think that tropico SHOULD DEFINATLEY have another ex-pack.  And they should increase use of military in it.  (I'm an evil dictator, and i LOVE to have an army large enough to eliminate 30 opponents in less than 30 seconds, dont you?)  The supreme ruler of cafetropico knows the list of new stuff, but he doesn't want to tell anyone.  And, the natural disasters are just a challenge, and not required unless your talking about bugs.  I think that the addons is a great idea, (Hey, my freind knows a bit of programing, in about 6 months he'd probably make some, but its kinda sacreligous for anyone but the REAL people to make addons.  Ok, so maybe that isn't it.  He's just too lazy.

and i'd really like it if evry major aspect of the game would be emphasized, IE military, political, tourism, people, and infastructure.

-The nuetron bomb

[Trachmyr]

Yes...  I recently bought this game, but I can say this game is great and has serious potential to be one of my all time favs, if they come out with a few more expansion packs.  This game has so much promise and expansion ability that it's unbelievable.  I personally vow to poptop that I'll buy all expansion packs you guys come out with.

This first expansion pack sounds cool (except for the dismal number of new edicts), but here are some suggestions for a few more:

Tropico: Third-World Politics,  This expansion pack focuses on the power of El Presidente.  It should add scores of new edicts (at least 100!), a few new superpowers (China, The EC and OPEC) as well as new interactions with them (and maybe some cut-scences of those interaction...).  It should also expand religion to seperate them into Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Judism, Hindu, Buddhist, New-Age, Agnostic, Atheist and Other.  New building for each religion, and you'll need to please those that are in the majority and keep the peace (or simply persecute the groups you don't like).  Also each job should include a male/female worker, but you'll have control over how employable women are...  but beware discrimation if the Women's Rights Group has power (esp. if high liberty).

Tropico: Industrial Revolution, This expansion focuses on adding new crops/minerals/factories.  It allows you to build a much larger number of manufactured goods...  but now tropicans will want the goodies too (Anyone remember SimIsle?).  This expansion should also add in vehicles.  Also more attention will be paid to pollution and pollution controls.

Tropico: Blackmarket, While the game has a TEEN rating, this expansion will not (Mature rating).  It will add drug trades, nastier violence, more military options, more power to the rebels (their guns cost $, why not build a hidden coca farm?), "seedier" buildings and proffesions (as well as a new tourist type looking for this), Child Labor, Gross discrimnation of minorities/women/religion, and all the other VERY non-pc stuff that goes on under dictatorships.  There is enough demand for this kind of product that they should just say ta'hel with the censors...  after all the game ain't that pc to begin with.


Finally, I think they should add a scenario-based expansion pack that includes new art-assests (more house variants, etc.) and an IMPORT tool that will allow fans to add new units/buildings/dictator Pictures to the game.  Also an editor to create new Merits/Flaws/Backgrounds/etc.

Comments, Critisims?

[the_neutron_bomb]

Yeah, but there was a big arguement earlier, and drugs and tropico dont mix.  I'd like black market otherwise, and without drugs it could still keep Teen rating.  More realistic violence. yeah, and you should be able to buy tanks, planes, gunships of your own and atom bombs on the black market. ... yeah, and ability to assist other nation's evil dictators in conquering the world, or do it yoursefl, island by island... but that last one seems kinda stupid

[Morticcia]

The user-made game add-on phenomenon for EA's The Sims franchise is a good example as any that opening up the code or whatever to users could be lucrative for game developers looking to expand sales.  Gamers are never satisfied with the number of items a game provides.

It must be that to do so may create proprietary info and/or gameplay problems.  The buildings in Tropico are more than 'items' in the The Sims, and maybe lay programmers wouldn't be able to work within the necessary framework.  But, not being a programmer, what the heck do I know.    

[Trachmyr]

Well, my thought about the user-made items were for them to create a steamlined import & edit tool (fairly user-friendly)...  then they only need to add a few scenarios and they've got them an expansion-pack...  the Maxis stuff isn't as user-friendly, but it's free.  We need something a little less complex as our fan community isn't as large (thus fewer programers).

As for the BLACKMARKET expansion-pack, I don't see why they can't release a Mature rated Expansion-pack...  it wouldn't affect the rating of the base game.  I'm sure many of us who want to purchase such a product are willing to pay a bit more...  or even order directly from poptop.  If poptop will have a problem with their publisher, they can release this product through their own company by "making" a small on-line publishing company (Happens a lot w/ board games, books, etc.).  If they're worried about a profit they can ask us to pay in advance with pre-orders, then if it won't be enough profit they can simply refund our money and cancel the ex-pack.  The fact is that I think this game crossed the PC boundry some-time ago, it's very refreshing...  but they can go further, and if there is $$$ in it, and it won't hurt future sale then why not go farther?  And as for the arguement about children playing this naughty bad-influence ex-pack, well don't buy it for your kids!  (and if it's an on-line purchase, you need a credit card)  And for the life of me, I can't envision that many 12 year olds playing the game.

Just my 2 cents...  (darn, that means I'll have to move back into the tentaments)

[the_neutron_bomb]

good point.  I hope they do make an ex-pack like that, and after all, if the little kids cant buy it, then boo hoo for them.

[Trachmyr]

Well it's also boo hoo for us because that type of x-pack would not draw in as much revenue wich means (1) we pay more and/or (2) it won't contain as much as a standard x-pack and/or (3) we might have to pay in advance <<hoping>> enough people are interested in it (which I'm sure there are, but how many of them will know about it?) that they complete it.  It is deffinetly a possibile for them to release an x-pack like that, but how likely?  Well I'll cross my fingers...  I'm going to write poptop an e-mail with this suggestion.

[the_neutron_bomb]

make a petition.  I'll sign and so will my freind.  He is still a guest, but when he sings up he'll have a cool screename.

[MadamPresident]

This is like those people who made the nude patches for The Sims.

Get over it people, its just a game.

Poptop has repeatedly stated that they will not use stuff like drugs in the game. I think that is a good decision. You want drugs, go play  Dope Wars.  

Tropico is not a NASTY game and I hope it doesn't ever become one.  

[Trachmyr]

I respect your opinion MadamePresident. However, before you begin comparing the the desire for some of us to have the more "controversial" elements of the game added to the adolescent mentality of 13 year-olds, please stop to consider:

1) I'm not suggesting they change Tropico, but have an ex-pack available over the internet (and possibly through a secondary publisher/developer) to create a variant of Tropico that includes these elements.

2) I'm not asking anyone who's not interested in the product to support it, thus I do see it as unlikely to be produced/published as I' not sure if there will be high enough demand since it won't have as much publicity (which might be another good reason to liscense the product to a small independant delopment company).

3) I dislike when elements that make sense for a game are removed because they are "not in good taste"...  (For instance most of the spy options in Civ1 & Civ2 were removed due to the 9-11 tragedy).  Somehow people think that ignoring the issue all together is somehow improving things...  who knows, the game might just inspire someone to help out in Latin America if they see these seedy elements (As for me I've spent 4 years in Peace-Corps, and another 4 years working with American Red Cross...  I've been to Latin America, heck, my father is from cuba).  What I think is harmful when they "lighten-up" these elements, like they are currently in the game.

4) Yes, while this will appeal to 13 year-old boys, it will also appeal to those who want a more serious political/social simulator (currently I think this is the best game on the market for that), or those who just hate to see things censored because of the frail minds and low tolerance of others.  Censorship is the halmark of dictators...  something we oddly can't really do in Tropico.

I hope I've clarified my point some more, and MP please don't think this is an attack, I've read many of your posts and find many valid points contained within them...  I'm simply trying to debate the topic.

[el_malo]

I agree, this would be an excellent topic for a debate .  It should be moved to another area... this is not the correct one for it.  Why don't you re-post it, over in the Nightclub or the Arena.  I, for one, will gladly participate... if you do so.

[MadamPresident]

I hope I've clarified my point some more, and MP please don't think this is an attack, I've read many of your posts and find many valid points contained within them...  I'm simply trying to debate the topic.

I never thought it was senor. I don't take these things personally.

Tho, looking at the vast majority of games that appeal to 13 yo boys(well, except Timmy), I would hope Tropico would not degenerate into them. But then I'm non agressive and never arrest people so what do I know.

I don't think Tropico is inherently a game where you can be nasty. If anything, violence has many repurcussions and your people revolt all the time. It's not really a game about getting tough.

I think "pure" sims are a waste of time.

[MadamPresident]

Somehow people think that ignoring the issue all together is somehow improving things...  who knows, the game might just inspire someone to help out in Latin America if they see these seedy elements (As for me I've spent 4 years in Peace-Corps, and another 4 years working with American Red Cross...  I've been to Latin America, heck, my father is from cuba).  What I think is harmful when they "lighten-up" these elements, like they are currently in the game.

You think a game is going to make people care? If the reality doesn't I don't think a game is going to succeed much.

Also if you have a goal to make X number of pesos in Y number of years, and child labor makes it easier for you, you think the players are going to get all nice and NOT use it? If anything, it rationalises the use of these elements.

I think there is a place for awareness, I don't think a game is the place for it.

Game designers do not try to make the game too real for the simple reason that people play the game to have fun, not to face reality.

Yes I know you're talking about an ex-pak but even an ex-pak changes the direction of a game.

[el_malo]

MadamP... Trachyma has moved this to the proper area, the Nightclub .

[MadamPresident]

I know el_malo, but I couln't quote this post over there, so I answered here.

I am contuning in the night club, as you mad have noticed.

[el_malo]

I did...

[Coconut Kid]

[from Trachmyr in #11, this thread]

Somehow people think that ignoring the issue all together is somehow improving things --  who knows, the game might just inspire someone to help out in Latin America if they see these seedy elements (As for me I've spent 4 years in Peace-Corps, and another 4 years working with American Red Cross --  I've been to Latin America, heck, my father is from cuba).  What I think is harmful when they "lighten-up" these elements, like they are currently in the game.

You think a game is going to make people care? If the reality doesn't I don't think a game is going to succeed much.

Also if you have a goal [challenge] to make X number of pesos in Y number of years, and child labor makes it easier for you, you think the players are going to get all nice and NOT use it? If anything, it rationalises the use of these elements.

I think there is a place for awareness, I don't think a game is the place for it.

Game designers do not try to make the game too real for the simple reason that people play the game to have fun, not to face reality.

Yes I know you're talking about an ex-pak but even an ex-pak changes the direction of a game.

It's interesting that this discussion got displaced to the Nightclub.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tropico/cafe/index.php?topic=1874.0

Haemimont found it (and others), and picked too many ideas for T3 & T4 out of it.