The Bible Brain Twister!

[Gigo]

As the leading (or perhaps only) Catholic member on this forum, I am quite pleased to introduce... The Bible Brain Twister!  The objective of the game is to find 16 books of the bible.  If you can not find all of the answers, never fear for at the end of this week (or the beginning of next week) I will post all the answers and where to find them!  If you can not find all of the answers, please post the ones you do have so that it may assist others in finding them.  I do ask that you keep the location of the answers to yourself and only post the answers.  Good Hunting!



Bible Brain Twister
Can you find 16 books of the Bible in the paragraph below??
      I once made a remark about the hidden books of the Bible.  It was a lulu, kept people looking so hard for facts, and for others it was a revelation.  Some were in a jam, espeacially since the names of the books are not capitalized, but the truth finally struck home to numbers of readers.  To others, it was a real job; we want it to be a most fascinating few moments for you.  Yes, there will be some really easy ones to spot.  Others may require judges to help them.  I will quickly admit it usually takes a minister to find one of the 16 books, and there will be loud lamentations when it is found.  A little lady says she brews a cup of tea so she can concentrate better.  See how well you can compete.  Relax now, for there are really sixteen names of the books of the Bible in these sentances.  One preacher found 15 books in 20 minutes; it took him 3 weeks to find the sixteenth one.

Author Unknown


*Note: There are answers in words, as words, and even between words.  Experiment with your mind to try and find the 16 books.  You can look through a bible for the names of the books if you wish, but please leave this for your last resort.  There is no "prize" for the winner, except perhaps a few pats on the back and loud cheers by the forum.  Please be a team player and do not cheat by exploring the net for any answers for I don't doubt it that the above is on it!  Again, Good Luck!

[caddet]

You're not the only Catholic on the board.  But I'm a former Catholic who is now a Christian.  I am also now an avid reader of the Bible.  Here's my list of books, which I found using no references:

1- Mark
2- Luke
3- Kings - (There's actually First Kings and Second Kings)
4- Acts
5- Revelation - (The actual name of the book is "The Revelation")
6- James
7- Ruth
8- Numbers
9- Job
10- Amos
11- Esther
12- Judges
13- Titus
14- Lamentations
15- Hebrews
16- Peter

[DonaMaria]

Wow Caddet!  (and welcome back!)  I sat there looking at that and found a few...then looked at your response and went back to see where you got them from...and THEN I saw them!  Aha!!!!!  

[Chris]

Man caddet, I almost had it!! 3 minutes and 5 books, and then I saw your pooooooooooooost.

I too am, Christian, although unlike caddet, I wasn't raised Catholic.

[El_Subcomandante]

Funny, I thought Catholics were Christians!

I was raised Catholic.  I am out of practice.  But I can think of no religion that I would rather not practice than Catholicism.

[Eddy]

wow caddet, you really know your biblical information.

[Railnut]

Geez caddet, you could have given someone else a chance. But, noooooo always got to be first. I've half a mind to copy then delete your response and let others try. Lucky for you the other half is in charge today.

Well done.

[Chris]

Hey Railnut, before you do that, let me write downnn all his answers.

[Gigo]

Well, since the brain twister has already been solved... i see no need to wait till the end of the week to tell people where to find them.  The following is where the answers are hidden:

1- Mark - in the word remark
2- Luke - found between lulu and kept
3- Kings - in looking
4- Acts - in facts
5- Revelation - a word on it's own
6- James - betwwen jam and espescially
7- Ruth - in truth
8- Numbers - a word on it's own
9- Job - a word on it's own
10- Amos - between a and most
11- Esther - between yes and there
12- Judges - a word on it's own
13- Titus - found between admit, it, and usually
14- Lamentations - a word on it's own
15- Hebrews - between she and brews
16- Peter - between compete and relax

I must say that I was quite surprised to see how quickly caddet solved the twister, and got all the answers too!  Well done!!!  I was never able to find Amos, Esther, and Titus until days after I first tried it.  

And to answer a question earlier about whether or not Catholicism and Christianity are the same or different... Christianity is a general religion that doctrines the teachings of Jesus Christ.  I say general because there are 3 main kinds of Christianity: Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodox.

The Catholic Church recognizes the decisions of the Vatican Council.  It is the binding of the Roman Catholic Religion.

The Protestant Church conforms to the practises ad principals of the Church of England.  Protesantism includes Angelicans and Lutherans.

The Eastern Orthodox Church practises the Eastern Rite but acknowledges the supreme authority of the Pope.

The above may or may not have helped you to define the difference.  If it didn't, don't be afraid to ask me for assistance in this thread.

[caddet]

The generalization given by gigoplex is very good.  The main difference between Catholicism and Christianity is the source of salvation.  Catholics are taught that salvation, the right to go to heaven, is attained through the seven sacrements of the church.  Christians believe that salvation comes through trust in Christ for paying our sin debt - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast"  Ephesians 2:8-9.  To assume that you have to do anything more would be like telling God that His perfect, sinless Son wasn't good enough for you, but you could do better.  Besides, two of the sacrements are mutually exclusive, marriage and "holy orders".  If someone is married, they cannot receive "holy orders" to become a priest or nun.  Likewise, someone who has received "holy orders" if bound by holy vow to never marry.  That means under Catholic teaching, no one could ever get to heaven!
There are several other points I could make, but this is probably not the place for them.  If anyone is interested, send me a private message for more information

[El_Subcomandante]

Another key difference between R.C. and most Protestant churches is that according to the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation (use that to win at Scrabble!) the communion wafers and port actually are the body and blood of Jesus, whereas other churches view it as a symbol.

[Gigo]

I would assume that caddet is a Protestant... but I could be wrong.  There are some points that caddet had stated that I will attempt to clarify.

"Besides, two of the sacrements are mutually exclusive, marriage and "holy orders".  If someone is married, they cannot receive "holy orders" to become a priest or nun.  Likewise, someone who has received "holy orders" if bound by holy vow to never marry.  That means under Catholic teaching, no one could ever get to heaven!"

If you are a member of the Catholic church and you recieve Holy Orders in order to become a priest or nun, the sacrement to marriage is canceled out.  When you become a priest, you devote your life to God.  In this way you would be garanteed access to heaven.  As for the part about marrying and not receiving Holy Orders... The Roman Catholic Church has just recently become more and more progressive...  

There once was a time when the laws of society were the same as that of the church.  This time was after the Roman Empire had fallen and Christianity was the dominant religion in Europe.  During this time the church had an enormous influence on the Kingdoms of Europe.  The church could incite wars if it wanted to.  It was corrupt.  Because of this, many religions sprouted from the fire.  Martin Luther had founded Lutheran Christianity, King Henry of England had founded the Church of England (protestanism), etc.  The Remaining Religion had become known as Roman Catholicism.  As the other Christianity religions had progressed with the society it had been situated with, Catholicism remained very conservative.  An example is this;  up until the 1960's, all priests would conduct their sermon in Latin and always face the front of the church, never the audience.  As time passed, the Roman Catholic church found itself almost totally seperated from society.  There were now many laws that the individual nations were creating that never had gotten the churches conscent, and the church no longer had the same influence as it used to.  So the Catholic church had finally made the descision to become more progressive.  There is now currently a debate about whether or not married men and women can receive the Holy Orders.  There are also many other debates that is going on but I just can't seem to remember.

Now, El_Subcomandante, the eucharist as it is called (your communion wafer and port) is also a symbol in Roman Catholicism.  I struggle to comprehend what you meant by them being really the body and blood of Jesus.  Are you trying to say that we're Cannibals and we preform Sacrifices?  If so, I find it extremly offensive!

[bhar]

Now the literal definition of "altar" suddenly fits...

[Gigo]

uh huh.... no

[caddet]

OK.  Now let me clarify some things.

First - I am not only a former Catholic, I am a former Lay Eucharistic Minister for the Catholic church.  That means I was trained and appointed (not ordained) by Terrence Cardinal Cook to say the mass and distribute the eucharist.  My devotion to the church and knowledge of Catholic doctrine were examined, and I was extensively trained for the position.  This was done for cases such as the Navy submarine service, where there were not enough priests, nor space on the subs, to send a priest out with each boat.  I filled this position for our sub - USS Lapon(SSN 661) - for a number of years.  When I made my earlier comments, as well as these, I speak from far greater training than the average church member.

Second - The Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation is exactly what El_Subcomandante said.  The Catholic church teaches that the priest has the power in his words to make the elements of communion "become the literal body and blood of our precious Lord and savior".  These words are in quotation marks, because they are the exact words given to me over and over in my training for Lay Eucharistic Minister.  They are not symbols in the Catholic teaching.  They are supposed to be the literal body and blood.  I don't accept that teaching, because I believe Jesus' words on the cross - "It is finished".  His body is not broken again everytime the mass is said.  It was broken once, and the need for that was finished.

Third - I am a Baptist.  Baptists are not Protestants.  A Baptist's faith is founded purely on scripture.  This does not make me always right, and I would never claim to be.  In fact, having read the Bible through several times, I am always impressed by how much I don't know.  But I might point out that when Jesus began His ministry, He chose to be baptised as a sign of surrendering His will to the will of God.  He chose to be baptised by a Baptist - John the Baptist.

[El_Subcomandante]

Thanks Caddet for backing me up on my theological knowledge.  I know a lot about this stuff for a leader of an officially atheistic state.

The way I understand it, Christianity is divided into three large areas: Roman Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity, and Protestantism.  Protestantism is fragmented into many denominations, including Lutheran, Anglican, Episcopal, Baptist, Presbyterian, Calvinist, etc.  There is no coherent "Protestant" agenda other than their common break from the Pope.  R.C. is the largest US denomination but Protestants combined outnumber R.C. in the US.

In college I got caught up with an Episcopal student group; I was dating their leader and it was inevitable.  That church is considered "Catholic Lite" because it has about 90% of the ritual and only half the guilt!!  Lutherans are close to Catholics, while Baptists and Pentecostals are a bit out on a wing.  Caddet - the priest for the college group was a former Navy chaplain who had an unending supply of stories.  I think he served on carriers and would be airlifted to smaller ships from time to time to do an authentic Epsicopal service for crews w/o a full-time chaplain.  Interestingly he was raised Catholic but opted to switch.

Now I'm not much of anything - nominally Catholic but I think I'd get hit by lightning if I made a guest appearance at church.  No particular reason, just drifted away - hangovers and ESPN on Sunday mornings may have had something to do with it.

[bhar]

I consider myself Christian, although I am not affiliated with any specific church.  I got quite fed up with organized religion while living in a town that only had two churches:  One was an Aryan style church that believed they had actually caught witches in Salem and a bunch of other crap like that.  The other thought that halloween was the devil's holiday and that you would roast for not attending their church every Sunday and Wednesday.  I kept well away from organized religion then, and still do.

(BTW, Gigoplex-- The definition of an altar is a place where sacrifices are performed.  I was referring to its literal meaning, I don't actually believe any Christian churches do sacrifices today.  )

[Morticcia]

One of the greatest ironies of the Catholic church, to me, is it's name:  Catholic.  The word means universal.  I think it was Saul, aka St. Paul, who came up with the name to indicate his wish for the goal of the church to bring together the numerous religious sects/cults of his time under the wing of Jesus' teachings.    

[Gigo]

El_Subcomandante's interpretation of Christianity is correct.  I have created a crude but accurate diagram explaining how Christianity is catagorized.

                         Christianity
                         /      l     \
            Catholicism     l    Eastern Orthodox
                       Protestantism
                     /     /    l   \    \
           Baptist     /    / l \   \   Lutheran
            Angelican    /   l   \  Episcopal
             Presbyterian   l    Calvinist
                               etc.

As you can see, Protestantism is immense in comparison to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox but Protestantism can really be seen as a general religion name rather than a distinct religion (kind of similar to that of Christianity).  The word Protestant comes from Protest.  There were people who protested the authority of the Catholic church and in turn created their own churches.  All of the religions under Protestantism are religions formed because of something people protested agianst the Catholic church and that is why they are all called Protestants.

[DonaMaria]

Okay..out of curiousity....I know there are English majors out here.....is there anything in common with the words sacrament and sacrifice?

[Gigo]

Sacrament:
in Christianity, any of certain rites ordained by Jesus:  In the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church it is held that there are seven Sacrements, namely, baptism, comfirmation, the Eucharist, penance, extreme unction, holy orders, and matrimony.  Protestants in general acknwledge but two sacraments, baptism, and the Lord's supper.

Sacrifice:
the offering of anything to a deity as propitiation or homage.


The above was from the Websters Dictionary.  From it you can make a conclusion to your question because the way I see it is that there is nothing similar between the two words except perhaps Lent and the fact that we go to church every Sunday.          

But I could be wrong.

[El_Subcomandante]

Gigo, that's a very nice tree you made there.  Tomorrow I'll send you the cash I'm paying you to back up my statements.

Does anyone here know anything about Scientology??  All I know is that it involves purification rituals and forking over cash, and it seems to attract mediocre Hollywood types.

[caddet]

Once more, I feel obliged to say that I am a Baptist, and NOT a Protestant.  The Baptist heritage traces back to way before the Protestant Reformation.  In fact, the Catholic Church broke away from pure Christianity when the power hungry church leaders in each city began losing political influence.  In order to regain that influence, they centralized their authority under the Bishop of Rome, at the capitol of the Roman Empire.  That Bishop's office is what later became the office of the Pope.  I know some are not going to like my saying that, and I surely don't mean to hurt anyone with my statements.  But several posters on this thread have attempted to "clarify" my statements with incorrect information.  I would prefer to have the opportunity to make my own clarifications, from my "inside knowledge" of what I mean to say.  Nobody else on this thread can possibly know what I mean to say, unless you ask me.  Please don't presume to "clarify" what you don't know.

[caddet]

Having said that, let me add this.

In his response about sacrements, Gigoplex left out Baptists.  I don't know about Protestants, but Baptist do not recognize baptism as a sacrement.  We recognize marriage and the Lord's Supper as the two sacrements of the church.  Baptism is simply an outward sign of the inward obedience to God.  Having accepted the gift of salvation offered through the blood of Christ, the believer then "follows the Lord in baptism", a sign of surrendering our will to His.

[Chris]

However, it is not neccessary to be baptized to become a Christian. It is a sign of "Becoming a new man" and dedicating yourself to God.