The goat farm

[Rum_Chugger]

Of what value is it?
Do my Tropicans eat goat?
Or does it contribute milk?
Is it efficient?
Which is better, cattle or goat?

Thanks

[Olle_Petersson]

The goat ranch is a food source (only).
The "value" is that the goats are less picky about their food, so it can be placed almost anywhere.

Cattle ranches can give a financial income as well, and are usually a better (but not good) option to start with.

When I used ranches I started with cattle, and when they'd grazed the nearby area clean I switched to goat production.

(Normally you're better off with no ranches at all...)

Cheers
Olle

[mooski]

Evenin!

   And just not normally are you better off, you are pretty much ALWAYS better off not having any farms.

   You can't bulldoze them, the cows wander all over creation, they take forever to make any money off of them, they're just not goot!

   (But they're thoughts et al on them are quite humorous... )

   Happy Happy!

[CrAzY_fEnIx]

Mooski,

I beg to differ.  I'd never used ranches, until CafeDave's scenario was released.  I actually turn a pretty hefty profit on it after adding the smokehouse.  First export was around 1954, so not too bad on turnaround time.  I wouldn't want to base an economy on them, but it turned out to be a good supplement.  Logging and beef were my main exports for the first 15 years of the scenario.  Too bad my $200,000 economy crashed in the last 10 years of the scenario.  

One thing I did learn though...I decided to switch to goats after about 25 years, due to grazing conditions.  I payed the $500 for a pair of breeders; however, they were sold with the remaining cattle before they managed to reproduce...had to pay an additional $500 for another pair!  

[mooski]

Evenin!

   So you've found a scenario where they're goot?  Hmmm...  I may have to try it there - but I doubt I will...

   I just get hung up on seeing possible friends being used as a food source...

   Happy Happy!

[General PinochetNut]

I agree with Crazy(no offence). I use cattle.  If the Americans or Soviets make a premium deal, beef jerky is well worth it.

[zegoiaba]

Don't know why, but seems like the 1.04 patch changed something. The ranches now have an invisible square fence, 7 tiles towards all directions. The cows don't leave that area now... it's good, because they won't wonder everywhere, and it's bad, as the productivity is too low after some decades.

Now i don't despise the ranches as much as before, as they can hand a nice profit for a low initial cost, mantainance and salary. 1,500k after 60 years, mid difficulty, for 6 cattle ranches, selling subsided beef jerky, and feeding people as well.
And they clean the trees much better than the logging camps. Impossible to bulldoze? Who cares. I just build around it and x'out one of the ranchers after some years.
"Mommy, what's that in the mid of downtown?"
"It's a ranch, hon."  

[Morticcia]

Don't know why, but seems like the 1.04 patch changed something. The ranches now have an invisible square fence, 7 tiles towards all directions. The cows don't leave that area now...

 Not on my maps   .

Are you sure?  

[Zalfolax_14]

I just forget about ranches. Often, they don't have a steady food supply. I go with fisherman wharves because they don't take up land space, have a pretty steady supply, and can be canned and exported.

[mooski]

Evenin!

   You've actually gotten canned fish out of the deal?

   Most I've ever gotten from the wharves is self sufficiency, and at that stage - I don't care.  If I'm gonna have four people taking up space in an apartment - they better contribute...

   Happy Happy!

[Olle_Petersson]

Most I've ever gotten from the wharves is self sufficiency, ...

You mean they only produce enough food to feed themselves?
... Or do you mean financially?

If the latter you have to count the price difference for the more profitable food that's been sold instead of the fish.

If you don't produce lots of surplus food a cannery won't be profitable though.

Cheers
Olle

[zegoiaba]

Yes, Ms. Ticcia, I'm sure. Let's see this pic. Notice they don't leave the square. And in 20+ years, the ranch made a handsome profit.

For the fish, it's good as food, not as export. Why bother with that when I want the canneries processing COFFEE, dang!
I wish I had a setting to forbid fish canning: in the game of the pic, i had only fish, cattle and pineaaples. If they can the fish, that sells for 1k, the resulting food shortage would force them to eat the beef jerky, 1.2k. Dang, it uses the factory processing power and I lose money.  

[zegoiaba]

Another one, this is a brand new ranch beside the 1st. They don't leave the square either. Of course the ranchers do, but not the cows.

[CrAzY_fEnIx]

Notice they don't leave the square. And in 20+ years, the ranch made a handsome profit.

Well, a pic is worth a thousand words, but I have seen one or two cattle (since 1.04) straying more than 7 tiles....I think what you're seeing in the pic is that the effects of grazing outside of 7 tiles is very nominal.  I don't have a screenshot, but in Wooden Limbs and Aching Backs I saw one cow (Chris maybe?) wondering aimlessly in the grass by the palace.  He eventually made it back towards the ranch, and I noticed that he ate very little, if any, grass along the way.

Just MHO.  

[zegoiaba]

Don't know if a special, named cow counts  .
But anyway, they ain't leaving the square, as you can see by the ammount of grass in the pic.
Nowadays, no more logging camps for me. Ranches are much much better, cheaper, lower mantainance, only 2 workers, way more profits, and they clean all trees and plants, making construction really easy.  

[mooski]

Evenin!

   I have to disagree - I think that the logging route is a lot better, especially if you get an electrified Lumber Mill.

   You're getting tons of money for the lumber, it's getting produced all the time, and you get to use skilled labor, which makes various factions happy...

   And if you're wanting the land cleared, don't buy the upgrade for the logging camp.

   I will grant you the efficiency of fewer people in the grand scheme of things with the ranches.  But I doubt that 'pound for pound' you make more money with goat/cattle than lumber...

   I better re-explain.

   Lets say that you have four logging camps, and two lumber mills, and two sets of teamsters to move stuff around.  That's 32 loggers, 10 lumber millers, and 16 teamsters for close to 60 people.

   Now, if you were to put like, 20 goat farms, for 40 people, and needing two sets of teamsters for the same 60 or so odd people, which would make more?

   I'm thinking the lumber...

   Happy Happy!

[CrAzY_fEnIx]

   Now, if you were to put like, 20 goat farms, for 40 people, and needing two sets of teamsters for the same 60 or so odd people, which would make more?

   

Last night I played a random map.  Dense vegetation, avg. altitude, etc., etc.  70 year duration.  First two buildings I built, in order, cattle ranch and logging camp.  By 1955 I had a lumber mill up and running.  Fully staffed ~1960.  Bought the upgrade for the ranch ~1957-8In the first 25 years of the game(I play on max speed mostly) I exported ~$250K worth of smoked beef.  Logging/lumber didn't approach that figure until ~1995.  The ranch, logging camp, and lumber mill each had a teamsters office within 6 grid squares.  They weren't equal distances from the dock though.  The logging camp was the most distant, followed by the mill, and then the ranch.  The logging camp and mill had housing near, while the ranch's housing arrangements were a bit further off.  Incidentally, the logging camp had both upgrades, and was set to clear-cut.  The mill was set to easy does it, and got power for the other 2 upgrades ~1990.  

This is by no means a statement that cattle ranches get more bang-for-the-buck than the lumber industry.  Its just what I saw in a game last night.  The numbers listed aren't exact, as I really wasn't playing the game for research, I just happened to notice them.  I'll try to run a 'test' game in a bit and actually keep track of things.  Look for results & screenshots soon.  

This isn't a huge topic in my opinion, but whatever I find out is bound to help us all out a bit.

Cheers!  

[zegoiaba]

Well Mr. mooski, there are some tactics that fit well in some gameplay styles, and some that won't work.
For the educated people, I can never have enough of them. So I stick them into highly profitable jewelleries, cigar factories, distilleries... And in the humble beggining, someone must staff the ministries, immigration offices, churches, HS, clinics...
And when there are too many bookheads, who cares. It's like the real life. Besides, as I make the island dadgumed happy, the factions can't complain.
That thing of building several ranches as soon as the game starts is to give me the edge during the early 60's. And the goods are sold at 1.2k, and even more when the airport is ready.  
The ranches clean the land entirely, even those pesky small plants. And if you calculate the net productivity and profit of each business, cattle beats lumber big time. Specially when you are in the 50's  
Of course neither lumber or cattle are the cash cows. But they're good for the starting years.
Never set the ranches to goat, btw. Maybe after 40 years  .

[mooski]

Evenin!

   Well then, I stand corrected...

   So 'pound for pound', the ranches make more money.  So, the logging aspect should then just be ignored?

   Now I guess the biggest thing I have to worry about is making sure that I don't put the ranches where they end up in a future 'downtown'...

   And anything that helps getting the money roooooooling in...

   Happy Happy!

[Olle_Petersson]

The problem with ranches is that they do clear the area entirely, and keep it clean from growth.

Late in the game it's common that the built-up areas are ugly, and some trees and bushes will make it look much better.
So you build a couple of fountains and plant several trees and bushes between the buildings.
The newly planted trees barely have time to root before they get eaten...  :-/

Cheers
Olle

[zegoiaba]

One thing is playing for score, and another thing is playing for fun.
But the fountains aren't ugly, are they?

[mooski]

Evenin!

   I went with the cattle ranches, as opposed to the lumber route...

   UFF DA, DID THE MONEY ROOOOOOOOOOOOL IN!

   Now if I could just bulldoze them after they've picked the land clean so I can have an airport in it's place later down the road...

   Happy Happy!

[zegoiaba]

Just don't build more than 10 .
And let them there, who cares anyway. X'out one worker after you build around the ranches, so the grass is so little that you have less than 10 cows. Maybe switch to goat after the ranches' surroundings turn into the downtown.

[zegoiaba]

BTW, don't use goats unless really needed.
Let's see:
Maximum cash from each cow: $1k+20%+70% = $1.9 (or is it more?) x 7 units = 13.3k
MAx cash for each goat = 2x $0.7k = pitiful $ 1.4k

-70% refers to trade delegation bonus
-One cow hands 7 units of meat, one goat results in 2 units

[The Goat Dictator]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you should discouver later on in the game that you've located a farm that ends up in or near the downtown - the editor would take care of that little problem?

I mean, its not possible to delete farms the natural way, (for some unknown reason just as the airport is stuck where you originally place it), but deleting it with the editor and then continue shouldn't be a problem at all.  Or would it?