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Zaskaszh
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« Reply #50 on: 05/05/01 at 03:53 PM »


Quote

If you had a disorder that you could not control, would you want someone to hype it as "funny?"

You guys must find epilectic seizures hilarious. "Give her some milk, chocolate and ice cream.  Instant milkshake!"  Angry


No offense my friend but your argument doesn't hold up. Somewhere in the world, someone has Tourette's. Somewhere else, someone has horrible acne...or is bald...or cross-eyed...or bad breath...which means that, according to you, nothing can be made fun of because someone, somewhere, is going to be offended.

I do think it's right to respect other people...but I also think it's right for those same people not to go overboard with their "demands" for respect.

Oh yeah...embracing political correctness is a sign of herd mentality.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #51 on: 05/05/01 at 04:13 PM »

The Union Jack dress is for Brian? But...but....I'm British, I should get to wear it. I could really get into that whole Spice Girl thing again!  Roll Eyes

If I can have the Union Jack dress Brian, I'll let you sing lead?

Now, where were we?
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'When you're tired of coups, you're tired of life.' - Coffeebean

'Golf.  Now there is an exercise in tedium!  It's people in ugly clothes walking!' - Eddy

'You will remember none of this. Your brief view behind the wizard's curtain will be replaced with happy thoughts of kittens and poodles, playing in the flower garden.'
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« Reply #52 on: 05/05/01 at 04:24 PM »

We were just at the point where Brian was going to lock himself in a closet and not come out again until the reference to the Union Jack dress is never spoken of again or only spoken of when referring to Eddy.  

Sing lead!?  Dravin promised me I could play lead guitar instead (I can't play the guitar, mind you, but Dravin promised!)

Now, back to the discussion about political correctiveness in gaming... who's turn is it?
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« Reply #53 on: 05/06/01 at 12:43 AM »

I think it's mine.

I think women and minorities should be portrayed in more games.

I think they should show more inter-racial relationships in computer games.

I also feel that they should show less violence in games and more people hugging, but only if both people agree to a hug.

Tongue
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El Presidente Para La Vida de la Isla Magnifica de Eddy

The only bad post is the one not posted. - El_malo
Mess with the best, get paddled like the rest. - Junta Joe
May the redness of your bottom be an example to all who dare to challenge Eddy... -  Mr. P
A day without paddling is like a day without the sun. - AriesQTPie
I will BE posting! - BatchMan

The Official Rebel Paddling Ceremony.  Now with paddles!

Eddy is the lifestyle revolution of the 21st century!
Nukenin
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« Reply #54 on: 05/06/01 at 01:31 AM »

Well, The Sims features women, minorities, interracial relationships, and consensual hugging, so there's one game already out there.

But somehow I don't think players waiting for Doom III will accept hugging in lieu of fragging, although it is an option that should be explored, IMHO.  Especially if tickling is also incorporated.
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« Reply #55 on: 05/06/01 at 10:15 PM »

I can see It now: Diablo III

Newb: I just killed Diablo last night!
Oldb: What? You didn't give him a consensual hug, and then tickled him until he cried uncle! You fiend!
Newb: Well, I thought that’s what the sword was for.
Oldb: What? That’s so you can play a Gay Roman Centurion!
Newb: I’m confused, isn’t the purpose of the game to kill Diablo?
Oldb: You bigoted freak! The purpose of the game is to love everyone and be as PC as you possible can!
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« Reply #56 on: 05/06/01 at 11:28 PM »

They aren't gay roman centurions anymore.

They are alternatively gender preferenced individuals who are of European descent who engage in barbaric ritualistic male-chauvinist biased combat.

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El Presidente Para La Vida de la Isla Magnifica de Eddy

The only bad post is the one not posted. - El_malo
Mess with the best, get paddled like the rest. - Junta Joe
May the redness of your bottom be an example to all who dare to challenge Eddy... -  Mr. P
A day without paddling is like a day without the sun. - AriesQTPie
I will BE posting! - BatchMan

The Official Rebel Paddling Ceremony.  Now with paddles!

Eddy is the lifestyle revolution of the 21st century!
Brian
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« Reply #57 on: 05/06/01 at 11:30 PM »

Eddy, I believe you're referring to the WWF  Smiley
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« Reply #58 on: 05/06/01 at 11:32 PM »

I wonder how you would describe me in PC Speak. : )
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Brian
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« Reply #59 on: 05/06/01 at 11:41 PM »

<only since he asked>

Height enhanced northern residential personality with natural based abundance of follicle-style thermal insulation
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« Reply #60 on: 05/06/01 at 11:47 PM »

I'm flattered, but... I'm not into that sort of stuff Tongue
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Brian
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« Reply #61 on: 05/06/01 at 11:57 PM »

What stuff... personality?  Grin

Brian's brain:  Brian!  Hello?  Helloooo?!!

Brian:  What?  Who's there?

Brian's brain: It's your brain, you idiot!  Do you remember about Dravin bench pressing the tour bus and ripping up banana trees with his teeth?

Brian:  Ummm.. yeah.

Brian's brain:  So how is insulting him going to allow you to live to see your next birthday?

Hmmm, I see your point... HIDE ME!! Shocked
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« Reply #62 on: 05/07/01 at 12:01 AM »

Of course, personalities are so boring, you should try being Borg for a while.


We are Dravcutus of Borg, your technological and physiological distinctiveness shall be added to our own... Not to mention your macaroni salad.
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"Hindsight is all well and good... untill you trip." - Said by me
Brian
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« Reply #63 on: 05/07/01 at 12:13 AM »

They'd take one look at Eddyatwork and decide that they'd be better off not assimilating us!  Could you imagine the entire collective running around in spandex Union Jack dresses with platform go-go boots?  Imagine the make-up they'd all need!  Shocked
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« Reply #64 on: 05/07/01 at 12:14 AM »

Okay, Eddy gains amnesty from the Borg, but you don't so come here!
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« Reply #65 on: 05/07/01 at 12:50 AM »

But if all the Borg needed makeup and cheap silver bangles and minidresses and hairspray imagine the boost to the galactic economy!  Why, bureaucrats would have actual work to do for centuries!

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El Presidente Para La Vida de la Isla Magnifica de Eddy

The only bad post is the one not posted. - El_malo
Mess with the best, get paddled like the rest. - Junta Joe
May the redness of your bottom be an example to all who dare to challenge Eddy... -  Mr. P
A day without paddling is like a day without the sun. - AriesQTPie
I will BE posting! - BatchMan

The Official Rebel Paddling Ceremony.  Now with paddles!

Eddy is the lifestyle revolution of the 21st century!
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« Reply #66 on: 05/07/01 at 01:06 AM »

If that 'crats want work all they have to do is try to classify this trio!  Shocked
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« Reply #67 on: 05/07/01 at 11:13 AM »

Yours is a valid statement and reaction, even if my own is different.

While the game is rife with any number of seemingly insensitive attributes, it's also important to remember that while parodic, it's clearly inspired by realities. Many of the "flaws" I've seen are attributes of actual historical figures. I frankly have no idea if TS is drawn from specific historical example, but wouldn't doubt it. It's true that it's tasteless to make fun of unfortunate conditions, however, I don't feel that the inclusion of TS in Tropico is any more mean-spirited or unwarranted than, say, assasination edicts, political jailings, massacres. None of those things are funny in reality; witnesses, survivors and loved ones are unlikely to appreciate humor on the subjects. Still, there is a place for wryness, irony, parody, satire in a balanced perspective. In my humble opinion, Tropico does balance potentially offensive elements as well as possible in a game that has chosen not to dodge reality, while creating an alternate one for intelligent play.

I'm sorry if this is an overwritten response, but I wrote it because I thought about a lot of these things when first playing the game. My own minor beef is that I didn't like the narrator's accent in the tutorial, because it sounded like a non-Latino's "Latin" accent from old Hollywood to my ear. I chose not to let it bug me, though, since there are more relevant things, and since I wasn't sure I was right, anyway.  Cool

- Mariachi
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General_Vogel
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« Reply #68 on: 05/07/01 at 11:20 AM »

Hmmm...

That actually brings up a valid point...in Europe, most of the rulers in the day used to be related to each other.  Keiser Willheim (sp) was actually related to Victoria.  France, Italy, Austria-Hungry all had family relationships with each other.  Many of these people suffered from problems associated with genetics yet they still managed to rule.  Victoria's family were hemophiliacs as I recall.  Many insanity disorders also were prevelant.  Although they were discussed behind hands they were still there.

I see no reason why they should not be included in a game and no ruler is without their flaws.  Making light of a flaw softens the impact of the flaw.
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HUWUWA
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« Reply #69 on: 05/07/01 at 11:58 AM »

I totally agree with the guy who said PC was so 1990s. My father is Italian (born in America) and my mom is part Czeck, Austrian, and Polish (she was born here too). I don't walk around and say I'm an Italian-Czechslovokian-Austian-Polish American. That's silly. I'm really a Native American (both my parents lived here when I was born) but I can't call myself that because under law I can't own a casino. I'm so glad this PC stuff is coming to an end. If you are PC you will say Billy Clinton "made a mistatement under oath" when it's far more honest to simply say "he lied". Oh well...maybe one day...
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« Reply #70 on: 04/25/11 at 11:57 AM »

I'm going to offer a serious response to kingofny's concern.  Yes, Tourettes is a real disorder, but I didn't feel that PopTop was making fun of people who suffer from it, they were simply placing it in the game as a flaw and trying to determine what the consequences of having this disorder would be.

I mean, you can say the same thing about every other dictator flaw.  They're all real problems that people deal with, but put it into perspective.  They are used in the context of the game to add flavor to the dictator, not to insult a section of society. ...

Brian's point is well taken. However, the developers did use "tongue-in-cheek" humor in a lot of the game. In this case it seems that style of humor may have missed the mark. The medically defined syndrome covers a very wide range of manifestations. The use in the game is very narrowly focused. People playing the game without ever having actual contact with a victim before could be led into a hurtful reaction upon having a real contact.

And that is the point about the false characterization of modes of common courtesy as "political correctness."

If individuals are so overcome by their need to exercise their freedom of expression that they must ridicule the handicapped, minorities, and others they find different, then let them. But they should do so with full knowledge of what they are about and not out of ignorance. They should be allowed to urinate or deficate in the middle of a street intersection if the mood so takes them. After all, it is only silly local ordinances that make such behaviors politically INcorrect.
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« Reply #71 on: 04/25/11 at 12:37 PM »

Heck, I'm fat AND bald.  Am I going to go around stopping the world from making jokes about fat and bald people? No, because I'm not a wussy.

There was a day when we could laugh at ourselves and our differences.  Now its like we live in East Germany and we have to "watch what we say." 

I first encountered this atmosphere when I went to law school.  My class was given a "sensitivity seminar" by a group supposedly representing various minorities.  There was one woman who openly declared she was a lesbian.  She's the one who did most of the talking and she warned us to be careful what we say about homosexuals or they would take secret revenge against us.

The only way to stop the PC oppression is to stand up and say: "D*** it, this is a free country and if I want to make fun of (put victimized minority group here) then that's my God given right."

Here is an example of the epitome of a person so politically oriented that he is offended by how much his professional success depends on etiquette.

Business etiquette for professionals
In addition to the following guidelines, make sure to consider Dress Code, Cross-Cultural Guidelines, Professional Corporate Tipping tips, professional golf etiquette, Corporate travel etiquette manners and cultural manners.

Good manners and professional etiquette are essential to a professional, and I'm constantly amazed that many professionals believe that professional protocol is as outdated as finger bowls at dinner. I noticed this book on Brooks Brothers “How to be a Gentleman” and I bought a copy for my young male executives, plus the book How to be a Lady for aspiring female executives.

Business professionals are expected to understand etiquette and professional protocol, and while the standards have changed over the past century (i.e. It's no longer considered rude to address a corporate executive by their first name), there are still many rules of common professional manners.

Historically, good manners evolved from common-sense and respect for others, and Sebastian Brandt was among the first advocates of good manners in his 1494 work in his book Stultifera Navis (Ship of Fools), a hilarious collection of woodcuts showing numerous breaches of the professional manners of the 15th century.
Later, Victorian England became obsessed with fine manners, and one of the greatest marketing efforts in the world was the Staffordshire craze of the 19th century. 

American pioneer wives pestered their husbands relentlessly to get the Victorian "Flow Blue" china, so they could demonstrate fine etiquette.  Let's take a look at professional mannerisms and see how etiquette and chivalry are far from dead in American culture:

Professional Etiquette in the workplace
Whatever your personal definition of professional manners, there are some common courtesies that are timeless and always expected from a courteous American professional.

Involuntary bodily functions
There are times when involuntary bodily functions can disrupt a meeting, and the well-versed professional know the proper etiquette.  Everyone has had the experience of sneezing, and you should always be prepared for this unexpected reflex.  I once witnessed a Herculean sneeze where the poor fellow had no ready access to a Kleenex or handkerchief and every sat in-horror watching him dispose of great gobs of spittle and snot by wiping it into his pants pocket. 

Ever since Benjamin Franklin published his bestseller "Fart Proudly" there has been a debate about involuntary flatulence and the proper was of handling this breach of professional etiquette. 

Acknowledgement of rank and status
It is still considered polite in corporate circles to stand when a senior executive or a woman (of any status) enters a room.  This is especially true in the military and Federal Government where senior officers (Lt. Col. and up), elected officials, dignitaries and top-executives expert you to stand when they enter a meeting.  In practice, most professionals make motions like they are planning to stand-up, allowing the official an opportunity to wave-them-down with a quick hand motion.

Professional Etiquette when Dining
One of the biggest areas of breaches of professional etiquette is during dining situations, and many major corporation will test job candidates with a meal as an integral part of the job interview.  It's interesting to see how the rules of etiquette have changed over the centuries.  An British etiquette writer of the 1840's advised, "Ladies may wipe their lips on the tablecloth, but not blow their noses on it.".

Etc.
As a child I was fully indoctrinated into professional manners, learning all aspects of the social graces, the source of much kicking and screaming.  My parents always joked that Grandma insisted on chaperoning them on their first date, as it was improper for a young lady to go-out unattended on a first date.

I hated my etiquette training at the time (I especially hated learning to Waltz, Foxtrot, and Tango), but its one of those things that they will thank you for later.  When I became a parent, I made sure that my kids attended Cotillion and today they are comfortable in any professional social setting. 

Interestingly, even animals have social rules and norms of civil behavior, and you can always tell an intelligent animal if it understands animal etiquette.  I evaluate an animals response to a social courtesy to access their social skills and intelligence.

In sum, professional manners and etiquette and mostly common-sense, but you must always be conscious that your mannerisms reflect on your personal professionalism and your company.
above stolen from the internet

I challenge those who prattle on about "political correctness" to contrast their idea of what it is with "civil behavior" amongst the general population. One wonders what Emile Post would say about "PC."
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« Reply #72 on: 01/19/12 at 09:49 AM »

Tourette's was changed to "Lazy" in one of the very late imprints of Mucho Macho.

Cross reference:
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tropico/cafe/index.php?topic=10128.0
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