Economic Collapse?

[Benevolent dictator]

In all of my games I have played that last for a while, I find that my economy collapses something like 50 years in.  I know that it is because my overhead is too high, but if I lower pay, the people get mad.  

Side note:  I normally have barely any soldiers, and always play with free elections.  

[Mr.P]

Hey Benevolent Dictator.

You've identified one of the main factors; allowing your expenses to outstrip your income. Once Cathedrals, Colleges, Power Stations and the like go up you'll soon see the $$$ going down, unless you have planned accordingly.

Several suggestions spring to mind.

i) When you build a 'service' structure, such as a Clinic, Church (or anything that does not make a profit of itself) then also 'make' yourself build a profit-making structure too.

ii) Even out the profit-making structures to lessen the boom-bust cycle. There is nothing worse that allowing your economy to be dependant on only one or two exports or industries. It only takes lazy Teamsters/Dockworkers, or a few bad years and you'll be in the red.

Try making sure you expand your tourist industry and have some profit-making media up and running.

For a little more detail have a good look around the Strategy section and Tropico Suggestions and News and you'll be sure to find even more idea's.

[Junta_Joe]

Media makes a great income leveler. Putting a TV station on high ground and set to Yanqui sitcoms by midgame will rake in huge bucks every year. The coupons newspaper ain't to shabby either and needs no electricity. I put one up as soon as I drop my college.

If your island starts with a college educated female, a case could be made to make a newspaper office one of your first buildings. Sure would help level off those first years when your income seesaws.

I'll do that next game and report back final income after 70 years.

[Benevolent dictator]

Has anyone done a study about the profitability of TV/radio with the cost of electricity factored in? I think that newspapers are pretty good for profit margins, but they only have cupons and more for moneymaking purposes.  

[Junta_Joe]

I think that PI now allows multiple coupons papers. I was building a second paper the other day to satisfy the new US demand of the capitalist paper. In the old version, when you used one of the options up, the options list changed the color  of the already used options. It didn't this time.

Another thing to test.  

[Mr.P]

Really Joe? Wow, I am going to have to give this a try when I get home. Coupons are a great way to get a few thousand extra $$$ rolling in and can make all the difference in the first few years.  

Well spotted.

[Junta_Joe]

Alas, I was wrong. Only one to a customer.  

Prelim results on the coupon paper:

As the cost of a paper is $7K, I set up a freebee hotel and a gold mine instead to start. That hotel corporate buyout is really handy. Switched one farm to tobacco and watched the money roll in early. You must try this setup once. Had a spare $7k to build the paper by 1953!

Only had the one college female for the next ten years even with skilled labor setting in immigration office. by '63 the paper had only broken even with one worker.

So I broke down and spent 9 grand on two more workers. 20 years later in '83, my profit was $75 grand!! I should have sprung for them earlier as I could have afforded them by '58.

Well that's where I am now. Will get back final totals in about 12 hours.

[Mr.P]

Thanks for the quick feedback Joe.

Are you able to give us an idea as to how many peons it takes as readers before breaking even/making any kind of profit?

The reason I ask is that I am assuming that a player simply does not have enough of a reader base (a.k.a Population) to cover the wages and running costs until a certain point; even with one Journalist.

[Egg]

  Perhaps you should review your industry again. Do you have enough factories? Are they making profit? Do they lack raw materials or the worker's pay is too high? There are A LOT of things to consider when it comes to the economy. I know best coz i'm the master of Jump-start Econ. Look back and tell me what your economy is like... review some of my other threads where i give tips on how to jump start the economy with $10,000

[Junta_Joe]

Mr. P,

My island had the first slow population crawl common to start up. When it had been open for ten years with one journalist, my population had went from 50 to 120. I had started with 40, but had waited 3 years to build it.

My hiring of the other 2 pretty much coincided with that first big expansion of population. When you jump from a hundred to 250 in a few short years.

Still haven't finished the game. Will get back later with info.

[Mr.P]

Cheers Joe.

[Junta_Joe]

The results are in.

67 years total for the paper. $231,000 net after payroll, maintenance, construction, and two early cash hirings.

Remember that 10 of those years were a wash so to speak. My population stabilized at 500 around year 2000.

50 year players would have made net of $162,000. Didn't check any dates but '63, '00, and '20.

Did better than my hotel, but, not even close to a gold mine. Got almost 2/3 of a fully equiped cigar factory, though. I'm pretty impressed.

I can tell you that getting the freebee hotel and  diplomatic office together really shot up my cash flow early. That added to my gold mine and tobacco farm and I never looked back. By my 3rd year, I always had enough money to build what I needed. By 1960, I was building things with leisure. Got so easy it was boring by 1990. My difficulty rating was 126, but, it almost seemed "sandbox" by the mid seventies. I could have racheted up my difficulty easy.

Cash always cures what ills in this game.

This is a cure for economic collapse.  

[Benevolent dictator]

One of the biggest expenses in Tropico is worker's wages.  It becomes a huge factor when there is a highly populated island.  To keep job quality up, I raise the wages (& rents) so the average income is the Carribian avgerage.  Have people found that it is easier to keep payment down, and focus on other happiness-makers?

[Junta_Joe]

Keeping up with the Caribbean average keeps the peeps coming in. If it gets too low, they start heading out.

I find that a constant dance with wages, rents, and immigration options is required. I go by feel, mostly, since any formula would have too many variables.

Being too stingy and they sneak away in the night. Be too nice and you have to call out the gunboats to  shoot their little rafts out of the water.  

[Mr.P]

Thanks for the feedback Joe, it is good to have some figures to back up what we were thinking.

From now on I intend to have a paper up on 'Coupons' by 1965, when my population reaches a point it will start making a clear profit with one Journalist.

[Junta_Joe]

Mr.P, I'd even recommend hiring outsiders as soon as you can. Seems as though you can recoup that money in a year or so. Then the rest is gravy.

Waiting until your population crosses 150 seems like a good idea, though.

[Lowpriest]

I stumbled upon this strategy when I found I had four college educated females in 1956 (not every time, just once) and they were all farming.  I built a paper.  Then another (cuz you just can't stop with coupons).  I found that when you have the staff, the coupons not only profits, but pays for your extra "Hey, vote for me" paper as well.  Of course, if you don't need people to like you then just build the one.  I was shocked at how well it works.

[Tappy Winchester]

I'm chiming in far too late to say anything of consequence...

I just wanted to add that Coupons N More always has a place in my cities. It always makes money over the course of my rule. As was pointed out earlier, if you build it early, the initial profits will be tiny at best, but eventually it becomes a money maker. Also as others pointed out, it's worth investing in college-educated overseas workers to staff the place. You will make back your investment and then some. I typically build it in the early to mid 1960s.

Thanks, Junta_Joe, for posting those numbers.

[Junta_Joe]

Media moguls can make big bucks if done right. A couple of papers, 6+ radio & TV stations can make gold mining or cigars look penny ante.

Talk about control too. Being a Pied Piper can get everyone loving you. Always take the  free elections restriction when you plan to do this. Every election is a slam dunk and those points really help your score.

Note to newcomers: Heighth extends to service radius of broadcast stations. Forget the coffee, put your radio/TV on the mountain top.

[Egg]

  TV stations expand all over the island but the radio is limited

[Junta_Joe]

I've had huge flat islands where TV service wouldn't cover it all.  An any case heighth does help.

[The_King]

Ok the gather round yall and let me tell u a tale of my good leader ship turned bad
Ok i had a good island about 200 people and had a strong ecomany based on cigars and rum but then disater struck, my people were happy as though i thought i had 20 enviorment rebels and they attacked my sugar fram and distroying it (I had a small number of soilders) and that was 1 third of my suger supply gone and they kept fighting my suger ecomnay went down the drain my spendings were shot and i was almost out of money i had to make a few pay cuts as well as lay offs but i went on and built my military accoudingly. That was not enough though they came back and this time at my cigar factory it was gone and my ecomany was yet again throwen into chaos. I fought back enough was enough i cut everyones wages to 1 peso and then rasied my military from 20 people to 50 soilders and 18 generals and the place was with soilders and police men everywhere and then i made houseing olny for my military. Rasied the cost of entertainement so it only avaible to my soilders then the REBELS came. SO many it was a gory battle but in the end i was the winner with my military crushed i rebuilt (i had tons of money left over from cigars and russia support) then i went nuts so many soilders and generals and poilce it was crazy then...munity sturck it was a coup i lost it was 50 tratiors and only 20 loyal they were crushed and my palace was gone but at least i learned that the Military might is the best!

[Junta_Joe]

Hmm. What would you say if I told you that military is never necessary?!

Relax Mr. P. I said necessary not desired.  

In most of my games I set political difficulty to hard or worse and fire all soldiers on day one. When I want rebels, I have to go to extra effort just to get them. There are two keys to pulling this off. One a good ecomomy that pays all the bills soon. Second is to anticipate the peons needs and deliver before crisis. Give them high liberty. Let them vote. Give them entertainment, food, and housing. They will work with nary a peep. It seems the more you try to control them, the more they rebel and protest.

I have found that when I set up a military style island and try to control the peons, they like to rebel or start coups. If that's what I'm going for, then great. Bad if you want a peaceful productive island. The money spent on a military machine buys lots of cathedrals, bars, and houses that make the peons happy.

[Mr.P]

What the....

<Must.......must not delete Joe's post......must, maintain discipline...>

[Junta_Joe]

He took that better than I expected  

Never fear Mr. P, I always stick around after the scoring ends and hose everyone. Grannies first! I even wait for the kiddies to grow up and bag them. I shoot'em coming up the dock! If possible, I try to start a coup after that.

One good thing about racking up $2million in a peaceful game is that I have lots of edict money after the scoring stops and my evil twin emerges.