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Cafe Tropico  |  Tropico  |  Tropico Discussion/Questions/News (Moderators: CafeDave, Mr.P, Railnut)  |  Topic: Realism in government?
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ratkisser
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« on: 02/25/02 at 02:27 PM »

I, as well as hopefully some other people, prefer to play games such as these in a realistic way, instead of just playing it as a game that isn't to be taken seriously. Call me a nerd if you wish, but I want to experience these types of games in the sense that they intend to be, i.e a simulation of ruling a small, tropical island.

In this way, I notice a lot of inaccuracies. For example, even though you can do a lot of communist things with your island, you can't be fully communist, because ...well...if you don't understand the concept of communism, then I won't bother going into it because it would take too long. But, in relation to every other game, Tropico is the best for simulating versions of different ideologies.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody, who does what I do, has any formulas of musts or shoulds for how to run their island in a somewhat politically-accurate way. Communist? Socialist? Leninist? Stalinist? Capitalist? Fascist? Anarchist? Religious rule? etc...

For example, when I run my island as communist, I make all wages for all workers as equal(i.e. no rich or poor), I have pro-Russian policies and I use the praise Russia edict a lot, I enforce the social security edict, I have a large and effective military who arrests or kills those who are unhappy and/or disrespectful and has enough courage to possibly challenge me, I prevent emigration, No elections, I build a communist newspaper(Voice of the worker), No religious buildings. Pretty soon, the USA gets pissed off at my lack of liberty, so that's when I let Russia build a base on my island.

Anybody else want to share?
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Che_Miguel
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« Reply #1 on: 02/25/02 at 07:35 PM »

Well, Ratkisser,
to tell you the truth: in 95% of my game I end up as an exemplary communist. Not, that I want this, but I just don't succeed in satisfying the capitalists.
I always set the wages to three groups: workers, high school educated and college educated. In the beginning I choose $8, $12 and $16. That cools down my relations to the US a lot, and after some years they threaten me with the gunboat. So I HAVE to build the Russian military base, because I don't want to get shot down. Once I have this military base, I cannot build an American one, even if the relations get better with the first hotels and factories.
I think the capitalist are not patient enough. They want too much too soon, or maybe I'm just a bad player.
So I have to deal with that- I seem to be a communist. There are worse things to be, especially for German ..!
I always wonder about realistic atmosphere, when there are rebels in the game. I have to fight the rebels to protect my loyal people. But are they grateful? No, they complain about a lack of liberty. Well, I don't want to OPPRESS them, I want to save their farms!
So I think they should honour that, the overall happiness should rise after a victory over the rebels. Feeling save in a country is a quality at last.
Communistic greetings,
Che
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ratkisser
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« Reply #2 on: 02/26/02 at 06:47 PM »

I never run a capitalist type of government, but if you want a good example of a Capitalist/ USA type of government, try this:

Make wages $5 for uneducated, $20 for HS educated, and $40 for College Educated. Hold elections every four  years, side with the USA in your foreign policy, build the capitalist paper and movie theatre, don't use the SS edict, build lots of Casinos and other entertainment places but charge enough that only those with an education can afford it. Make the uneducated people live in shacks, the HS educated live in tenements, and the college educated live in houses and above, use "Food for the people" edict.

Basically, your goal is to make it so the rich and educated get the best treatment and the poor and uneducated get very little. That will make the capitalists so happy, and the communists will hate you, but who cares, right?

Come on...I want to hear some other ideas from you guys!
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« Reply #3 on: 02/26/02 at 07:06 PM »

the game Republic: the revolution sounds like a game you might like. its not out yet, and im not sure when it will be out.

heres the companies web site ftp://http://www.elixir-studios.co.uk/
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« Reply #4 on: 02/26/02 at 09:31 PM »

I just looked at the web site.  Now I have something to look forward to...
Thanks, Bulletsponge!
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« Reply #5 on: 05/21/12 at 12:54 PM »

Gameplay has to be within the Game World. First, the game world has hardware constrictions which makes a perfect simulation of the real world impossible. Second, individual players usually mistake their personal beliefs for the actualities of the real world; personal experiences are incomplete pictures.

I, ..., prefer to play games such as these in a realistic way, instead of just playing it as a game that isn't to be taken seriously. ... I want to experience these types of games in the sense that they intend to be, i.e. a simulation of ruling a small, tropical island. ... I notice a lot of inaccuracies. ... even though you can do a lot of communist things with your island, you can't be fully communist, because ...  anybody ... has any formulas of musts or shoulds for how to run their island in a somewhat politically accurate way. Communist? ... Capitalist? ... etc. ...  when I run my island as communist, I make all wages for all workers as equal (i.e. no rich or poor), I have proRussian policies and I use the praise Russia edict a lot, I enforce the social security edict, I have a large and effective military who arrests or kills those who are unhappy and/or disrespectful and has enough courage to possibly challenge me, I prevent emigration, No elections, I build a communist newspaper (Voice of the Worker), No religious buildings. Pretty soon, the USA gets pissed off at my lack of liberty, so that's when I let Russia build a base on my island.

A "Poster Boy" for my Postulate. In a later post, he tells how to run a capitalist island. He firmly believes that his personal picture of the world is the real world, and that it should be simple to fit into the game. What he calls "inaccuracies" are not problems in the game; rather they are problems with his world view.

First, he doesn't notice the actual inaccuracy in the game of calling the U.S.S.R., "Russia." That helps obscure the problem of the USSR's collapse before the game's time period is over. It also obscures the fact that the USSR neither represented theoretical communism nor did western propaganda accurately portray it.

The wage issue is not equal pay. It is that pay should not be driven by social class. The game is accurately concerned with "divergence."

I don't understand what he means by "enforce" the social security edict; it's quite passive and not particularly associated with communism. He seems to mistake it for a welfare program negatively propagandized by the west. Then he connects the food for the people edict with the capitalists. Again falling for western propaganda, but now about food distribution.

Theoretical communism does not require a repressive army\police combination any more than theoretical capitalism does. It's unbalanced to harp upon one over the other.

The elections in the game world are typical of dictatorships without regard to communists or capitalists. That the U.S. is concerned with them is one of the game's points of humorous irony. An election papers over the lack of any other formal democratic process. Preventing emigration is not particularly associated with either side except in western propaganda. Capitalism usually is quite happy to get rid of the surplus.

"No religious buildings" represents the greatest victory of western propaganda about "godless" communism. In the Western Hemisphere, the RC church was divided but largely supportive of the left. It is so silly because a player's refusal to provide for fulfilling the religious need makes all the people significantly less effective at getting to work than they would otherwise be.

The game has far more flexibility on political issues than ratkisser discovered.
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