You can't pay me enough to stay

[2ninga]

This happened to me the other night and I've never seen it before.  

I was getting towards the end of my reign (I was going for a place in history) and I wanted to bring the Pope in to make everyone happy.  Unfortunately the religious folks on my island only had a fair opinion of me. (Apparently their allegiances were elsewhere )  Anyway, I thought a sizeable donation to Juan, the leader of the faction, would show my commitment to their cause.  I clicked on Juan and found him working at a farm, and he had nowhere to live.  Seriously, not even a shack.  The picture was blank and it said Juan does not have a place to live.  

Anyway I offered Juan the tax deductible donation and went in to see what he thought about it.  The last thoughts registered by Juan were "The government is terrible"  and "I'm leaving."  No recognition of the money at all.  I followed him as he walked to the dock and boarded a boat for new opportunities.  

The only thing I can conclude from this is that once someone decides it's time to go, they give up whatever house they're living in, and they're out of here.  Nothing is going to change their mind.  Not even $$$.  Seeing as how he lacked the capacity to understand the genius of my leadership, let alone the value of my bri**, I mean, contribution, I was glad to see him leave my island.  I just wish that he would have had the decency to either refuse my money, or show some gratitude, you know, for the effort.  I don't like the idea of financing people in the start of their new endeavors in other countries.

Has anyone else ever seen this?  Once someone decides to leave is that it?  It would be nice to be able to change the mind of someone you really need to stick around ie experienced doctors, engineers (Presidente, you don't have enough electricity to power all the buildings on the island.  Where did Maria go?) etc.

[Revolucionario]

I just turn on "Nobody gets out alive" at the office and then Mr. Happypants can't leave anywhere. This has happened to me too and it really is sad to see some great people leave. Especially the smart ones.

[Professor Pioneer]

I tried this last night in New Havana - had a banker on the dock ready to leave.  I turned on 'Nobody gets out alive', but he was too far gone - he left.  I couldn't afford another banker, so ended up losing the game.

[Slacker]

Build a prison, er uhm... Re-education center, near your docks.  If you check the thoughts on someone and they are moving away, arrest them.  Have your prison guards ambush them on the way to the dock and they'll get sent to Pro-Presidente School for a few years.  Sure probably not the best way to keep them happy, but it does keep them on the island.

Something else to be careful of is your faction leaders dying... and never being replaced.  Had that happin yesterday.  My militarist leader died and 5 years  later he was still laying on the dock.  10 years later he was still dead.  20 years later still there... and still in charge of the faction.  And unfortunatly, you can't bribe a dead guy so I was stuck with the military being pissed off.

[2ninga]

That has precedent in the real world.  Mao has been dead for years and he's still leading the ruling faction in China.  Of course, I don't think he's just lying on a dock somewhere.

I haven't arrested anyone, yet.  Does the re-education work?  Do folks come out of prison loving you?  Do they change factions at all?

[Malovane]

They end up coming out of prison far less happy (unless your island is a dungpile) than when they came in usually. Re-education raises their respect of you. It also, as I have witnessed over long periods of time, degrades their faction standings if that is the cause of their refusal to respect you.

Ie, if you have a -20% base with the communist party, and this guy is a die hard communist, he will at best have an 80% respect rating for you. Usually it will be far less, as respect ratings (unless playing for total happiness) will be an average of 50 to 60. But, if you re-educate this guy... his faction will gradually increase to 80% respect. To get past that it has to remove factions. It does, though extremely slowly. Once he is no longer a part of that communist party, his respect can shoot up to 100%.

In general though, jailing people is a bad idea. Imprisoned people count as unemployed workers. Having enough unemployed people on the island severely degrades your respect. It is however, a useful tool on Immigrants Out! islands where you want to tailor your small population base to certain views, and keep them from leaving on the next boat to Havana.

The bad news is, when they get out of prison, their prime stats will be at rock bottom. Housing, Health Care, Religion, and Entertainment will be nil. So, while they will respect you, they will still be unhappy with the state of the island. It takes some time for those stats to improve to normal states. It could take them as long as 20 years to recuperate.

[2ninga]

Is there a time limit to how long someone stays in jail?  Or is everyone given the same sentence automatically?  Is there a limit to the number of people you can put in a jail?  I can't believe I haven't tried this.  I've always had cops, but they've just helped the touristas find el bano, and they take the K-9 units to the schools for show and tell.  Next island I'm going for iron fisted rule:

"Presidente, the prison population of Tropico grows quickly."

"Presidente, the jail cells of Tropico overflow."

[Matt]

Why put them in jail when u can just have them eliminated

[bhar]

Shark Bait--

Everyone's given seven years when you arrest them.

You can have an unlimited number of prisons but only 8 convicts per prison.

You can instantly evict a prisoner by shift-clicking on them.

[2ninga]

Thanks for the info.  I'm currently building my island of pain.  Liberty is going to be little more than a memory for those who annoy me.

[Bombora]

I tried something similar to this before, police, a few farms (to keep all from dying), and many jails. I tried to make a living basically off nothing more than convict labor. It didnt work out. They dont make enough to pay off the price of the food, gaurds, palace gaurds, and pay the salary of the farmers. plus children can't be imprisoned so not only to you have to keep rearresting people every seven years bout you have to watch the children closley, the tend to become rebels not to soon after the become grown up, but who wouldn't with their entire family, friends, and everyone else imprisoned?

[bhar]

Bombora--

There is a thread called "Forced to stay on tropico" where I did some math to prove whether it is possible to build a prison-only island.  I found that theoretically it is possible, but there are so many quirks and variables of an actual game that it may or may not be possible to actually turn a profit.

[Slacker]

plus children can't be imprisoned so not only to you have to keep rearresting people every seven years bout you have to watch the children closley, the tend to become rebels not to soon after the become grown up, but who wouldn't with their entire family, friends, and everyone else imprisoned?

Wouldn't that make for a really cool scenario though?  An island where the evil presidente comes into power and has everyone thrown into prison just because.  A few children are left to fend for themselves and as they grow up become rebels.  They work together to bring down the oppresive regime, but are instead shot in the leg and thrown in prison to rot with their parents!

okay, maybe this only seems like a cool idea cause i had a bad day at work  

[Railnut]

I hope you're not a social worker. Or worse, a school teacher!

[bhar]

Scenario?  Sounds like next year's summer blockbuster at the theater.

[2ninga]

In a scenario like that, you could only POST if you were holding the conch

[Coconut Kid]

EMIGRANT
SURPRISE !

This happened to me the other night and I've never seen it before. 

I was getting towards the end of my reign (I was going for a place in history) and I wanted to bring the Pope in to make everyone happy.  Unfortunately the religious folks on my island had only a fair opinion of me. (Apparently their allegiances were elsewhere.)  Anyway, I thought a sizeable donation to Juan, the leader of the faction, would show my commitment to their cause.  I clicked on Juan and found him working at a farm, and he had nowhere to live.  Seriously, not even a shack.  The picture was blank and it said Juan does not have a place to live. 

Anyway I offered Juan the tax deductible donation and went in to see what he thought about it.  The last thoughts registered by Juan were "The government is terrible"  and "I'm leaving."  No recognition of the money at all.  I followed him as he walked to the dock and boarded a boat for new opportunities. 

The only thing I can conclude from this is that once someone decides it's time to go, they give up whatever house they're living in, and they're out of here.  Nothing is going to change their mind.  Not even $$$.  ...

Has anyone else ever seen this?  Once someone decides to leave is that it?  It would be nice to be able to change the mind of someone you really need to stick around -- i.e. experienced doctors, engineers ... etc.

You have seen the truth of life on Tropico as El Presidente. You are not GOD! Even that Immigration Office is not "foolproof" as the advice says.

Yes, when a citizen decides to leave - the decision sets a lot in motion. It's already too late to turn on the "no exit" option on the Immigration Office; there may even be a 'gap' if the Office is not running at full efficiency. The citizen moves out of his house and his\her immediate family make the same decision to leave. However, he\she retains their job until they actually do the exit routine at the Port building. All the 'person edicts' are a waste of money after the 'leaving thought.'

[Coconut Kid]

Bombora--
There is a thread called "Forced to stay on tropico" where I did some math to prove whether it is possible to build a prison-only island.  I found that theoretically it is possible, but there are so many quirks and variables of an actual game that it may or may not be possible to actually turn a profit.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tropico/cafe/index.php?topic=412.0

I wonder --
If you could start an island with a high population, build a lot of prisons, and throw everybody on the island in prison except for the cops and military.  Of course, set the prisons to "convict labor..."
I wonder if you would make enough money to support the island?
Well, let's see. Let's say you have 100 people - a prison has 8 prisoners who produce $40 of goods a month.
plus (i don't know the maintenance cost of prisons, and i'm lazy) plus 2 cops paid, say, $10 a month per cop.  Let's just make up an arbitrary number for prison maintenance=$5 a month...that leaves the prison with a +$15 a month balance.
let's say you have 9 prisons with 72 people in them...
the other 28 people probably will be:
18=prison guards
6=cops
4=military (palace guards)
let's say that the 10 non-prison workers earn $10 a month per person.(plus, let's say, oh, $10 maintenance for police and palace)  that's a balance of -$110 a month...so add this up.

BALANCE PER MONTH
15x9= +$135 a month
         -$110 a month
---------------------
You earn $25 per month!  Now I'm probably forgetting something, but foreign aid should cover all extra hidden expenses.  But then again, remember that this is in a perfect world, and without figuring the cost of constructing these buildings.  (the people probably might not like it either)
But it is theroretically possible to build a profitable "prison island."

I'd say "no kidding?" -- but it really is.