Cyborg Inplants

[Maus]

Reminds me of the "tattoo your child so he/she won't get kidnapped" craze from a few years ago. It's interesting that the segment of the population that is horrified about putting the 'ol doggie-ID chip in people feels that way for the same reasons as the segment that can't wait to get their very own personal chip -- simple paranoia.

I fear this is only the beginning. Soon, the govt will assign ID numbers to each of us, and will not allow us to hold a job unless we have one. They will force special ID cards upon us if we want to drive a car, and special ID cards to allow us access to medical care and to our financial assets. All of this information will be placed in a special container called a "wallet" that we will never dare to leave our homes without. Anyone who wants will be able to access our entire personal, financial, and medical history merely by scanning these wallet documents with their eyes.

Aiee! I carry the mark of the beast in my left rear pants pocket! Now I know what they meant when they said "get thee behind me, Satan!"  

[Maus]

Sensory, organ, and mental augmentation show greater promise for retrofitting. They would be limited to space available and the strength of the synaptic system. You could make a better person on an existing frame, just not much stronger.

We could get a sizeable increase of strength and speed if we could just upgrade our crappy suspension and transmission. Strengthwise, even an unused out-of-shape muscle is capable of contraction sufficient to tear the tendon insertions out of the bones, or to snap the bone itself.  Our bodies protect us from self-injury by setting a governor on how many muscle fibers we can voluntarily trigger at once, and by hitting us with crippling pain levels when a gasket is about to blow. Excercise improves matters by setting the neuromuscular governor higher and by strengthening the bones and tendons, but we still can't consciously or safely call for emergency redline power from the muscle. Involuntary response is an exception: a load of andrenalin in the blood to momentarily goose the neuromuscular connection and disable the pain circuits, and suddenly the 80-lb sedentary woman heaves aside an 800-lb boulder to free her child. I don't ask for much -- I just want titanium fibers woven into my bones and cartilage, and conscious control of the neuromuscular governor. Oh, and maybe conscious control of my adrenals so's I can give meself a good buzz now and then  

[Mike]

Your one of the people that are dooming our species' existence.  How?  By accepting the idea that whatever might happen will most certainly happen after your dead, so why bother with it.  It's this kind of thinking that is allowing the Ozone to continue to breakdown. It's this kind of thinking that is allowing global warming to continue.  If you don't do anything, then the problem will never be solved, and thus your destroying the hope of a good and prosperous future for our decendants.  It's that kind of thinking that is destroying the world.  How can you sleep at night knowing that you can make a difference, but don't because your too negligent.

Gigo, the ozone layer is breaking down now.  Global warming is happening now.  And they're both bad things which we know will continue unless we stop them.  I am a volunteer.  I have done much to help the world, and will continue to do so.  
You know very little about me, Gigo.  I DO NOT think that science is a thing to be nipped in the bud.  My whole point is, science can turn out something entirely different than we expected, and it has before.  Where would our long-range planning be then?  People have feared science for very long now, because it represents a dive into the unknown.  I'm willing to take that dive.  I don't fear the results, because in the end, it is still us in control.  I have a little faith in humanity.  Not a lot, but a little.  Do you?

[Junta_Joe]

Timmy and Gigo!

It's ok to thrash each other so long as you stick closer to the subject matter.  

Save the ecology for another slammin' thread and stick with the Asimov stuff.

'nuff said.

[Junta_Joe]

Like oil and water those two!

[Mike]

The beauty of the debates is that they tend to meander a little.  Keeps it from getting boring, doesn't it?

[Baron Francisco]

Jeez, this thread sprouted up quickly...just like my sisters Petulas...

Anyway, a way to control the muscular governer and adrenale system would also cause major phsycological breakthroughs, because what stress really is is the fact that the body will do certain things due to a variety of stress causers. These things the body do include heightened nurvesness, a higher muscular governer level, and a continuing trickle of adrenaline. While this is good for a short time, it wears down a person and causes bad stress, paranoia, and depression. So, regulating that stuff could prevent that stuff. Just turn down the muscular governer, shut of the adrenaline, and you should be fine. And excersize? Who cares about excersize? Those implants are supposed to take care of that.

And on the subject of the ID chip, also known as the 'Mark of the Beast', I'm against it. My paranoid side says no good could come of it. Besides, why have a data chip in your arm to give medical info to a doctor, when you could simply put a card with data about your medical history in your wallet? Even better, the card in your wallet could be digital, much like a credit card. The doctor just swipes it through a nearby machine to pull up your full medical history.

[Gigo]

The ID-chip boasts both good and bad prospectives.  A good thing for example, would be that our criminals and law offenders can be held on a tighter leash (not to say that the leash isn't tight as it is).  The bad point is that it could lead us to live in an increasingly state controlled world, without privacy, and without freedom.

[Mike]

The only restriction that I can see is that it makes it harder to forge a drivers' license!  Gigo, please tell me how it could be restrictive (assuming that the ID chip was not equipped with any sort of transmitter)

[Gigo]

I wouldn't use the word "restrictive", but anyway.  Let's use a scenario:

Johnny is tagged with the IDchip.  He decides that he wants to buy a plane ticket from Ontario to Delaware.  He arrives at the airport with haste as he is very excited about his trip (he just can't wait to bonk the imfamous Timmy on the head).  He brings his bags to the airline check-ins and proceeds to walk to his plane.  On the way there, he has to pass through a security checkpoint.  The customs officer on patrol scans Johnny and finds that he is tagged.  Although he isn't carrying any other metals, due to procedure and policy, the officer presses a button and all of Johnny's personal information appears on his/her screen.  Behold! The officer finds something!
He/she says, "Say Johnny, it says here that you've once been charged for drinking and driving, and that you've been apprehended on several accounts of abuse".  
His/her voice tone changes, "Is there any chance that you might make trouble on the plane?".  
Johnny replies with a sincere (or atleast he thought it was) "No".
Frankly the customs officer doesn't believe him and decides to pull him aside for further investigation of his personal history.

Although I may be exaggerating a bit, it's not hard to understand the point I'm trying to make.  "Restrictions" on our civil and social freedoms could become common place with ID-tags, even if they don't include a transmitter.

[Mike]

"Your", meaning, of course, the convicted felons'
At any rate, I agree that such an incident should not occur unless it was part of the expressed sentence for the crime.

[bhar]

But it will.  And you will have a hell of a time getting insurance with one of those little marks on your cards.  Job?  Forget it.  Forgiveness?  Forget it.  The entire principle of living off mistakes made in your past would be gone.  We will probably have ID cards within 10 years.  I am only assured by the fact that the federal government is incredibly inept at this sort of thing.  I can envision a time when you must give your card to a cashier when buying a bottle of water or a bag of Fritos.  What does the cashier do?  Why, she automatically sells your address, phone numbers, SSN, blood type, criminal history, purchase history, and history of all internet sites visited in the last year.

Stumbled upon some porn last October while surfing the net?  Prepare to have Hustler, Playboy, and every known vile material on your doorstep in 6 to 8 weeks.  Get caught with some dope?  The cameras in the streets zero in on your face and track your purchases.

I can imagine the day when prospective dates ask for your card and screen you before agreeing on 8:00 Friday night at Little Italy.  And of course, Little Italy does not let you off the hook that easily.  Once they scan your card with the bill, cookies are placed on your internet server saying that you like Italian food and pretty girls.  I'd like to see those ads.

As you can tell, I must side with Gigo here.

[Mike]

I understand your point... And, to be honest, I am somewhat leery of that particular method of cyborg implants.  But I think that the ID should definitely be heavily regulated to keep businesses honest.

[Bulletsponge]

there should be no government IDs. Government regulation?! those idiots can do anything right

[Eddy]

Someone asked about the Japanese device that translates dog barks?

Well, Gary Larson of the far side had it 10 years earlier.

I don't have the pic but basically imagine a scientist walking around with a big piece of headgear down a street with lots of dogs.  The dogs are all barking.  The machine translates each bark as being HEY!  

HEY!  HEY!

HEY!

HEY!  HEY!  HEY!

HEY!  HEY!

HEY!



And that's what dog barks translate to.

[Mercator]

Right now, the government has no say in the ID tags.  Its purely in the hands of private business.  What scares me is that quote about the Y Generation wanting to get 'chipped' because they think its cool.

That just totally blows my mind.  People are willing to spend 200 bucks plus $40/year just because its 'cool'?  Fully knowing that there are chips just like this used in South America with GPS capabilities?  I know the Gov. can track us via that already, but to put that capability into the sector?  Thats scary.  With the Gov, at least you know they are prying.  But they pry for security reasons.  Corporations pry for the almighty dollar.  Give me the government anyday.

Also, to play devils advocate, the reason the chip is so 'great' is because what if something happens when you don't have your wallet on you?  Or it's in your car and your 20 feet from it when you fall unconscious?  The Verichip ensures that won't matter anymore.  

But like everyone has brought up, it's the lack of privacy that can happen with this.  Anyone can buy a scanner for it.  The company that makes the chip also updates the database.  Teenagers already are prime targets for corporations.  Now Verichip can make money of the implants AND the information of each person.  It's sick in a capitalistic-pigdog sort of way.

Just call me,
~ Mercator