Mining is a waste of resources - here's why.

[Mercator]

Well, I've done alot of trial runs with this idea and I've come to the conclusion that mining is nearly pointless.

One mine, a refinary, and then one of each processing building (blacksmith, foundary, gunsmith) is a waste of a heck 'uv alot o' wood.  To top it off, the number of slaves required to run such buildings is, again, not worth it.

I've played about 4 or 5 scenarios now where I purposely did not build any mining stuff.  Instead, I just built a black market, stocked it with two skilled traders, and I was off.

No need to waste 10 slaves just to mass produce cutlasses.  And gunsmith's? Forget it. Just buy the stupid muskets. And cannons can be found easily enough.

So why create the buildings? Well, the only reasdon I can even think it might be worth it is to sell off the excess goods in the smugglers cove. But then again, in order for that to work, you really need to be cranking out the goods. It's just not cost effective to use all those slaves!

Instead, I've found it better to use those slaves in other areas and forgo the mining altogether.

Rarely do I find myself losing any weapons. Once I buy a full stock of cutlasses, I can do a few cruises before I even lose 1 cutlass. And then, I'll just buy it for a mere 50 doubloons.

I suppose if you lost weapons more often, it might be better to mine, but as it stands, I prefer the black market anyday. And to top it off, the black market doesn't require you to even have the funds necessary to buy the weapons!

So, go ahead. Try building an island and purposely forget to build mining operations. You too will see there is o benefit to having them.

[TJ]

I was making this point as well in another thread.

http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~tropico/cafe/index.php?board=18;action=display;threadid=7005

I just use the black market as well.

[Captain Bligh]

I'm going to give this strategy a try. I like to use the brigandines, these bad boys rule the seas,  and always end up with way too many pirates and not nearly enough female captives to staff my entertainment facilities.
Is it just me, or is it that everytime you raid the same settlement, you keep getting less and less peeps?
Thanks for the tip guys!

[Emperor Oli]

Once I did a cruise in a frigate and nearly all my crew were wiped out (but I had about 40 land-lubbers to replace them) and some were nearly all the weapons.  This happened on a few of my ships and it is very expensive to keep replenishing on the B.M.  I don't consider the number of slaves used in the building where the weapons are made extortionate either.  But heed my warning!   Once, quite a while into a game, I built a galleon and it needed to be supplied as usual when it had just been built.  Because I relied so heavily on the black market, it cost me about $50,000!

[TJ]

Because I relied so heavily on the black market

There was your problem with that game. You over-relied on the black market. In general, I would only use the black market at most 3 or 4 times per ship and sometimes only once. One for initial equipment and maybe a few more times until there are enough cannons to pound with. I have rarely had to use it after it is full up on cannons.

[Mercator]

I've noticed the black market does get more expensive the more times you use it. However, the prices go up based on each time you buy each item. It's not based on the total amount of times you use the black market as a whole.

For instance, if you purchase rations on the black market, you'll notice that the price goes up the next time. However, the price of muskets did not. Only when you purchase muskets does the price go up for the muskets.

One other thing I noticed is that the price can go down if you do not use the market for awhile.

For me, I use the black market just to purchase the initial cutlasses. Then, I use those cutlasses on cruises to get cannons. From there on out, I use the cannons, which replenish themselves.

Otherwise, I use the market only for sea rations. It doesn't get too expensive, not compared to the number of captives I need to run the various buildings.

[Copper Maniac]

If you see black market prices going down, it could be that your traders have become more skilled.

[El Cpitaine]

I said the same thing on another thread. I always build a black market early and use it to buy supplies. On early missions I don't need anything else.

But on later, harder missions, the cost of goods on the black market starts going up fast and ships start getting lost more often.

In these scenarios, the black market is good to start things up early in the game and buy time, but in many episodes you'll still need a metal economy late in the game and all the black market does is buy you some time.

Of course, if all you need to do is build up your personal hoard, you can just get in debt once you've built enough ships -- no need to worry about the island's treasury.  You're not exactly in this for good government!

But if you have to break even in a hard scenario, you probably won't be able to rely on your black market alone; sooner or later things will just get too expensive.

[TJ]

you probably won't be able to rely on your black market alone

I have been able to in almost every game I have played.

[Rebel-Yell]

At the beginning, I am using the black market quiet often to buy weapons and sea rations.Later only rations, because buying musctes and cannons for bigger ships would ruin my treasury.But after the patch(which will set a price limit fpr the black market) things may change.

[Captain Bligh]

I have tried TJ's strategy and found that it does work. I only use the pound 'em order once I get enough cannons and don't need to use the market anymore. If I get too low on muskets or cutlasses to raid I just build a smaller ship and outfit it with weapons from the black market and use that ship just for raids or send them out with atleast one more ship, if not 2 or 3, depending on the size of my fleet. I've done this in 3 games now with much success.

[Fred Bob]

I have tried TJ's strategy...

Aye, Fred Bob be a tryin' Captain TJ's Infamous Black Market Strategy an' be findin' it tew be as sound as de oaken timbers under yer feet! Barkeep! A rum fer Cap'n TJ!  

[baccus17]

I've used the Black Market strategy many times after reading this post, and it does work well.  The only thing I don't buy is cannon.

Recently though, I've discovered the virtues of the smuggler's cove.  That thing can generate some serious cash, provided you have a friendly nation to sell to...

-baccus

[Dodsstot]

The Black Market strategy works, absolutely. Another point is if you play the Sandbox with all the cards stacked against you, if you can snatch a trader before your initial cash runs out or use a pirate that grants you a free trader, then you're in business. You can buy weapons from the black market even if you are at a negative balance.. it just puts you further in debt. This negative balance is gained back by a few early cruises well before a cutlass merchant actually manages to stock up your dock.

I find gunsmithy to be worth the while. Guns are expensive on the black market versus what you can make them for. Cannon smiths are a great waste of time and resources. You gain way more cannons than you could ever want after a half dozen cruises. The only reason not to shut down this line of factories is if the seas around you are terrible, and you are selling off weapons at the pirate's cove to a friendly nation.

[Bagu]

I agree with this.  I only use the black market to supply cutlasses and sea rations, because the ships always seems to come back with cannons.

once the gold starts coming in, i'll give them some muskets.

[boomer]

Wow! You're right, the black market works great!

I was stuck on the sixth scenario of the campaign, War and Diplomacy, for the longest time. It seemed there just wasn't enought time to start plundering and stash enough cash. Yesterday I tried the black market strategy, and I was able to start plundering almost immediately! It seems that the cruises have a much better chance of success earlier in the game. When I take the time to build my sea industry, by the time I am finally able to set sail, I seem to lose ships quite easily. But by using the black market and setting sail early in the game, I haven't lost one ship yet, and my cruises have been much more lucrative as well! Thanks for the tip!

[King Goldcoin]

This black market strategy sounds very good. But I have a couple of questions:

1.) How many months does it take before you make your first cruise??  (I take about 15 months)

2.) How is the Build Order??

My BuildOrder:

Timber camp
Construction tent
Sawmill
shipyard
black market
dock
wench & masseuse
wench & masseuse
smugglers dive
schooner
animal pit
first cruise
wench and masseuse
second cruise

By the time I am ready for first cruise it just takes a lot of time because piratehappiness is 37. Then, when my ship returns, (only got 900 gold , a pirate and a few captives ) my captain immediatly begins slaughtering several pirates, and it is nearly impossible to make him board for next cruise.

In my second cruise I got NOTHING. Not only no gold, but no captives, no recruits, nothing. Arrgh!!

3.) How long time do you wait betwen each cruise?  (I do about 2-3 months)

4.) Do you start out with cruising, or do you do some raids before??

I play sandbox, lost colony, and restless island stability.

thanks  

[Severous]

King Goldcoin

I like Black Market also.  Gets me off to a faster start.  Longer term it gets expensive so I make my own ship supplies eventually.

I am playing scenarios only.  I can answer all your questions by referring you to my After Action Reports on the Tiny Island scenario.
http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~tropico/cafe/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=6737

[King Goldcoin]

Thanks Severous, after I began building entertainment early, I am doing much better. I also like those screenshots in your post, where I can see all of your city. Such screenshots really help a noob like me.

[Clever duck]

  I buy on the black market even if I'm producing that item.  Then I don't need to wait for the dockers to load the ship,  and my hoard gets a share of the sale at the cove.

  Perhaps some user-generated scenarios will make things more difficult? ...

[Coconut Kid]

This black market strategy sounds very good. But I have a couple of questions:

1.) How many months does it take before you make your first cruise??  (I take about 15 months)

2.) How is the Build Order??

My BuildOrder: ...

By the time I am ready for first cruise it just takes a lot of time because pirate happiness is 37. ... !!

3.) How long time do you wait betwen each cruise?  (I do about 2-3 months)

4.) Do you start out with cruising, or do you do some raids before??

I play sandbox, lost colony, and restless island stability.

The question about build order indicates the player is habituated to "city builders" and expects an established formula will "win" the game.

It seems that the technique of using the "Black Market Building" creates a spin that is a total diversion from the intended system of game play. The Black Market has little to no verisimilitude to the pirate world of the period. It's just a quick & dirty patch, probably related to early play-tester's squawks.