Tourist/Entertainment: How much to charge?

[Gemega]

After trying different wage/fee ratios at restaurants, pools, spas, etc., I'm beginning to wonder why I should even bother with tourism at all. With these attractions, income is measured in the tens and hundreds of pesos and require a lot of micro-management. It would be much easier and a lot more profitable to just add another gold mine somewhere and forget about it.

With one middle-of-the-road hotel and one luxury hotel, pools, spas, restaurants, caberets, pubs, nightclubs, casinos, etc., I'm lucky to make a profit with about 40 tourists a year and a tourism rating in the high eighties. Not to mention the added expense of an airport, power plant, and other infrastucture, like housing, schools, hospital, police, etc., for the tourist-trade workers. I've tried setting the fees low for volume pricing. I've gone the other way, gouging the tourists with outlandish fees. And, I've tried all points in between. Neither approach seems to make money. I'm lucky if I make a $1000 pesos at the end of the year.

What am I doing wrong? Unless I missed it, there's nothing in the manual on how to set fees. In the manual, it says that a Tropican will not spend more than his/her wage. Is that per visit, per month, per year? It doesn't say. Similarly, there is an amount shown that the tourist will spend, but is this per visited attraction, per day (whatever that is) or per vacation? It doesn't say.

Any ideas?

[Off_Shore_Banker]

Gemega, at the risk of repeating myself and others check out the following thread: http://www.cafetropico.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=strategy&action=display&num=99428817As far as setting fees, here's what I do. I stick to building medium hotels ($5000) and beach sites. The hotels I set to 22-25 pesos per room and the beach sites can easily be set to the same rate. The beach sites will rake in grand theft money over the life of your game which is why I tout them so much. (That and I have a construction company that builds them for +20% over cost) Anyway, don't give up on the tourism aspect of your game. Once you get it working, those pesos will become a very important part of your economy.

[Eddy]

Your problem might be too small a tourist industry.  Try building five hotels (medium is fine) and have plenty of spots for them to play and you might see an upsurge in the profit.

[Riftwar]

    Ive lost my taste for tourism. As you say emperor, you need multiple hotels. This is a waste for space. Once you break 700 population you are desparetly looking for somewhere to house more people. And the dadgumed buffer zone you need around the tourism really get my teeth grinding. IMO there are better ways to generate far more money. Plus if you screw the pooch with morale, gold and crops dont find another island to visit.

[bhar]

But you've forgotten the true beauty of tourism.  It doesn't give huge payments such as industry, but it is a consistent source of income, and that's what matters.  With a good industrial base, you may make $225k in one year and not another cent for 5 years.  But with a good tourism base, you can make $50-80k every year.

[Riftwar]

    But alas, you once again did not address the ugliness of tourism. It is in fact less consistent than farming or mining. Tourism can be brutally effected by bad morale, crime, and pollution.

    And if you plan your building appropriately mining and farming will bring home the bacon every other year, thus offsetting each other and eliminating the yo-yo economy. Once I get my act together, usually by the 20 year mark income of 100-150k EVERY year becomes common place until 2050. Things always get wierd for me about then. Havent figured out how to keep it all together the second century. Oh well, practice, practice, practice.

[Tropikanski]

Build mooooooore hotels. Luxury ones are fine, since the tourists that visit them have more money to spend on the atractions. If you have, let´s say 8 hotels, you can have a couple pools, some beach sites etc and you can charge 30 pesos on some and 40 on others. Just keep an eye on the buildings occupation. If they are full try to raise them a little bit. If they are not full just lower the price a bit as well. Do not forget banks as tourists spend many pesos on it. Choose a profile that gives you a little edge on tourism rating. Always have the tourism advertising, mardi gras and headliner edicts made. With these on your tourist zone should be greener that a footbal field. Build at least four docks for yatchs only. Of course you have to have other two docks for your (small) industry. In the beggining do not forget the gold for it is what will give you an important edge to start building your tourist industry. Be veeeeery aggressive, don´t be afraid of letting people in. One thing though, never forget their needs. On 1965 you shoul have at least three gold mines, 1 jewellery, 1 tobbaco factory, 2 cathedrals, college, 2 power plants ( the first 2 ) 1 Hospital, Night Club, Gourmet Restaurant. Of course you should already have built al lest 6 construction offices. Build lots of tenements, but place them very carefully because you can not afford to waste some very valuable space. Build some apartments too but less and some blue houses as well ( charge 7 for this ones )  Try to beat my score 21339.

[Revolucionario]

You could also look at the individual tourist charts. They have how much a givin tourist is willing to spend in ur tourist attractions.

[bhar]

If you've got pollution, crime, and morale problems so bad it crushes your tourism industry, you've got worse problems than a screwed economy.  Tourism is acutally extremely profitable and consistent if managed correctly.  Mining and farming are land-consuming, polluting, and pisses off the capitalists.  True, if you have one of the Pol-Pot style dictatorships maybe tourism isn't your style, but on average, tourism is a great economic help.

The only thing that could compete with a well-run tourism sector is a large jewlery or rum industry.

[Riftwar]

    You misunderstand. Any one of these factors can wreck tourism. At some point one of these can become a problem and making your reign a total loss if you depend on tourism. Gold/jewelry is the cash cow of Tropico. Managing tourism is not the issue. Overall income is and tourism just doesnt fit the bill. You know, I live in an "international" city, whatever that is supposed to mean. Maybe I have an inherent prejudice towards tourists (we despise them). Either way, Ill let others pursue that avenue. As for me, industry is my god. And the capitalists love me anyway....

[bhar]

Riftwar--
I am certainly not telling you how to run your island, do whatever you want.  I just don't agree with the fact that, as you stated, farming is more consistent than tourism.  It most certainly is not.  Yes, you can run a very profitable island on jewelry alone (I like that approach a lot myself).  I just don't think that tourism is totally wrong and unprofitable.

If it was unprofitable, I have no idea how I got an island to year 2200, 75 happiness, and $10 million on tourism alone.

[Riftwar]

    Bhar- Go back and reread my post (7 back). It stated a combination of mining AND farming is more consistent. I would never make such a ludricrous statement such as farming alone is more profitable. Alone it generally lags behind tourism a bit.

    BTW I have enjoyed this debate. I dont care what those guys said in regards to the "canadian" issue, I think your a good egg. Peace out.

P.S. Those stats at the end of your post: was that in sandbox mode and if not what method did you use to control elections/happiness after the 1st 100 years? Just curious.

[bhar]

Thanks.  The only thing I regret on the canadian issue is telling those folks that the second (and some of the first) post was satirical.  I should have just entertained myself with the hilarious responses.

PS-- That was not in sandbox mode, that was with economy set to easy and the politics set to hard.  I always had free elections, and that island is still going fine (I just got a little bored with it).  I've had a few close calls with elections, but the "tax cut" edict has worked very well.  I have about 30 troops, mainly because I get about 1 rebel a year go to the woods.  But other than that, the people love me.  I have a lot of hospitals and cathedrals, and they never get full.  If I ever do get a close election, I just use tax cuts, parties, and bribes.  I also have a lot of police stations, mainly because of tourism.  Low crime really enhances happiness.

[Revolucionario]

I'm glad this didn't turn out to be a angry post. I usually go the factory route. I do have a little tourism though.

[Riftwar]

Always forget the cops until the people are lawless. Wonder why?

[Malovane]

Mainly because people have 0 to 1 weight in crime safety and environment until it gets bad. Then it shoots up to 3-10.

[bhar]

Kinda like the Sims or something... In that game hunger is weighted about 3% of a person's happiness when they are full, but grows exponentially as they get hungrier.  By the time they are starving, hunger makes up about 100% of their happiness.

[Sal_]

If you only plan on building the cheap motels, I would suggest placing a few bungalows on the beach. The bungalows will attract the rich tourists without having to invest in a luxury hotel. The high-class tourists will spend $40-$50 at a beach site.

[Revolucionario]

I never had luck with Bungalows though. Need to find a good rate to charge.

[bhar]

Yeah, I don't think bungalows are very economical for the fact that they just house 2 tourists.  Their best side is that you can squeeze them into useless little tiles that otherwise would be left fallow.

[Alastar]

personally, i prefer tourism over industry. it can be very very profitable (not far behind jewelry and rum factories for booze barons). tourism might be less reliable (once things start to smell, like high crime rates, high pollution, military coups etc, you might take a huge if you rely mainly on tourism), but if you can avoid these issues, it is more consistent than industry. also, it causes no pollution, doesn´t waste limited resources,  depend on the weather or anything else you can´t influence. someone claimed you needed a belt between your tourist area and your main city... true to some extent, but you don´t actually need to waste any space. if you organise your island in rows parallel to the cost (ie in concentric circles on a small island) in the following fashion, starting at the beach, moving to the centre: beach sites/ hotels/ tourist attractions/ entertainment facilities, churches/housing and anything else, you have your tourists nicely out of the way without having to build separate entertainments for tourists and locals (although you might want to, as you can usually charge tourists more). don´t even bother with electricity - the best tourist attractions are beach sites and scenic viewpoints, both of which depend heavily on the environment (although losing out on the tourism advertising hurts a little). set your docks to freighters only, and set your airport to first class - this ensures you will get only prime lean tourist willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money. this way, tourism will be profitable and also dependable - if something goes wrong (see above) and yor tourism rating drops, you can happily lower your prices and still make a profit catering to the slobs, you won´t be reduced to tears by the prank your engineers pulled on you by all leaving the island simultaneously (probably to go shopping in paris... argh, women!), you won´t flourish for just a decade or 2 to find out that tourists are staying away because of pollution and there isn´t a blessed thing you can do etc etc etc. as an added bonus, tourism seems to please the yanks who are all too fond of sticking their peeling noses where they don´t belong - at least on the higher difficulty settings.

imo, tourism is in the long run a better option than industry unless your diplomatic relationships with the netherlands get too high, in which case all your tourists (yes, even on a tropical island half the size of a football pitch) will arrive with their own caravans (ie won´t use hotels) and will take a months supply of sandwiches with them (ie no visits to bars&restaurants).

[Egg (Guest)]

   Hi, I'm new to this forum but have been playing Tropico for quite some time and I find this game very interesting and amusing. About the subject of tourisim, I feel that it can rake in alot of money if built properly and with an airport.

   Apparently, you do have to build lots of hotels. I usally build about 3-5 depending on how much of my island will be used for tourisim.Well I'm usally realistic and i charge the default rates if not then just a littile higher than the default rates. Lets say $5 more?

   I think that in the beginning you must consider whether you want "Heavy" tourisim or "Light" tourisim.Think, if you build a cheap hotel or a medium one and have an airport, beachsites, pubs etc... and suddenly you have the money to upgrade to high class tourisim, would you attucally bulldoze off the hotels and start beautifying? Usally i go for the high class tourisim because one hotel, in a year can rake in as much as $15,000 at default rate minus the maintainence and the wages for the maids. Besides, high class hotels can hold more tourist!

-Egg
-They call me Egg at home because my head resembles          the shape of an Egg so don't think i'm some idiot.

[eppme]

Wow you guys just build 5-6 hotels eh?  I have over 16 luxury hotels and 5 normal hotels.   4 Pools, 3 spas, 5 gourmet restaurants, 20+ beach sites, 5 souvenier shops, 2 casinos, 1 sports complex, an airport, 3 yacht only docks, 4 pubs, 4 regular restaurants, and 5+ police stations.  My tourism area is almost half my island.

[Peron]

 ... and I thought building 1 of each class was good.

[Angry Beaver]

First, let me dispel two myths.  

A) An airport is NOT required to draw high class tourists.  It may help (when it's finally built...) but it is not by any means necessary.  Just make sure you have a nearby port set to Yachts only.  That's all you really need.

B) You CAN build your hotels fairly close to buildings such as power plants and other industry without suffering terrible quality ratings.  You need only about five tiles separation.  If you need to build them a little closer together, use fountains and a line of trees to beautify the area and keep quality up.

Before you build your first HQ hotel begin the process of improving your relationship with the USA.  Not only will this help keep you in power, but it will encourage tourists to visit your island and raise your hotel quality.

1) Start your tourist industry in a tourist friendly (green/yellow) area with at least 1 HQ Hotel, 1 nearby Port that only accepts yachts, 1 Spa, and either 1 Gourmet Restaurant or 1 Nightclub.

2) Set the quality option on your entertainment buildings to the lowest setting until the first worker arrives.  At that time, change the setting to the highest.

3) Use the build priorities to arrange for all these buildings to be completed at about the same time.  It will save you money on maintainence as well as keeping the quality ratings for the buildings higher right after they are completed.

4) Manually set the charge at your hotel(s) to at least 35.  Thirty five seems to be a nice starting place.  The spa should charge the same as the hotel and the other entertainment buildings should charge a little less, based on their BASE quality (listed in the game book).

5) Once each building is completed, temporarily raise the wage sky high until a few positions are filled. Then drop the wages back down to the appropriate level.

Keep in mind that raising the wages then dropping them again results in a hit to happiness overall.  Your citizens don't appreciate a pay cut.  Be careful if an election is near and it looks like it will already be close.

6) At this point the money should start rolling in.  Use these profits to expand your tourist industry.

Only place high quality entertainment next to the hotels.  The hotel and entertainment buildings seem to work together, raising the quality of all the buildings faster.

Make it a priority to build a bank close by for Off-shore Banking.  This one building will earn huge amounts of money.

Put one marketplace by the hotels.  This is very important to keep your tourists from making long walks for food.

Place a large fountain or two near your hotels.

Place your lower quality buildings (casino, pub, etc) at least five tiles away from a hotel.

7) If you have buildings such as pubs in other parts of your island you may notice tourists making the long walk to see them.  This is not a good thing.  Your job is to make your tourist trap just that... a trap.  

To keep your tourists away from your peasants, build one of the same building close to the hotels (but not too close if it's got a low quality) and set the charge outside the range your peasants can afford so only tourists go there.  Problem solved...  

8 ) Begin adding more HQ hotels and one of each entertainment type building.  Your tourists like variety.

9) Over time (about once every several years) raise the charge at the hotels and entertainment buildings until you reach 50 at the hotels.  

10) You will see the quality ratings at each building rise over time until the hotels and spa(s) quality both reach 95+.  Your tourists will be filthy rich and they will add 50K or more per year too your bottom line (with about 6 HQ hotels and one of most every entertainment building).

11) Watch the money fill your swiss account, smile, and light up a another cigar!    The time and effort required to develop a profitable tourist industry have been handsomely repaid in Yanqui dollars.  

One last word.  In terms of profitability per tile, the tourist industry is second only to gold mining.  So if you have gold deposits, exploit them as early as possible and then move to tourism.  Otherwise, focus on tourism if possible.