Tropico 3

[MottledGreen]

Adding to my list of Tropico 3 ideas... (the following assume a game more like Trop1 than Trop2)

3) Different sized schools and churches. No sense buying a huge school/church that will spend its existance mostly empty when you can buy a smaller, more efficient one.

4) A detailed recordkeeping system like the ship's log in Trop2 would be nice, for keeping track of island activities.

5) Also, a graveyard in a Trop1 style game would be interesting, even if it weren't as functional as Trop2. (Where do all those corpses vanish to anyway? Fed to the fishes, perhaps?)

6) And maybe: The option to completely neglect building maintenence, at the risk of permanently damaging the building in some way...possibly risking structural damage and dead Tropicans.

7) More independent action for Tropicans...especially capitalists that could invest in the island.


I think we should all keep the ideas coming with or without news of a Tropico 3. All I can say is that if a Trop3 were more like a Trop1, I'd buy it for sure.  Doesn't matter to me if it's the Congo, Brazil or the moon!  

[MottledGreen]

Oh yeah, another pair of ideas

Allow the player/dictator to define town/city limits, or at least make it very clear where the predefined limits are.

9) An option to make edicts applicable only to certain towns/villages/cities.

[Fidel_of_the_internet]

Peasents setting up more complex buildings than shacks like personal farms or pens you know

[Presidente Andrew]

Peasents setting up more complex buildings than shacks like personal farms or pens you know

I really like that idea. In fact I like everyone's ideas.

[Dark Shinji]

So far everybody seems to be in favor of an updated Tropico and ignoring Trop 2. Personally I favor an upgraded T2 with improved combat.
It seems to me that if the locale is movable to anywhere in the world the name Tropico would hardly be appropriate.

The combat system in Tropico 2 is indeed lacking.  It's basically just a 'roll of the dice' kind of thing.  Sometimes I send out a frigate in an area with heavy naval traffic and it comes back filled to the brim with gold, captives, and recruits.  Other times I send a frigate out into an area with little naval presence and the ship is sunk in just one real time minute after setting out.

If they want real combat, they need to have an ability to control combat to some degree.

[el_malo]

All the "suggestions" were interesting, but, we should be realistic in our expectations.

IF there ever is a new update to Tropico... it will be done on the cheap.   Pop-top is not going to spend much money on Tropico.

I would like to see the following made dual gender:

1.  Cook
2.  Teacher
3.  Shopkeeper
4.  Bureaucrat
5.  Professor (?)
6.  Engineer
7.  Journalist
8.  Doctor
9.  Banker (?)

A new Police character and building:

1.   Police Chief - same as a General
2.   Police HQ - same as Armory

Finish developing the Plaza icon.

Look at any Trop2 buildings that could be adapted/added to the real Tropico.

The long dreamed of "Crush those *&%# Rebels" edict  .

Open up the editing/modding a little more to the modders.

[el_malo]

Icons for additional genders could easily be "modded" from existing ones by PT.   This is a minor fix compared to adding a "Kill the Rebels" sub-system to the game.

Actually, the entire military needs to be re-worked.   Armories would stay the same, except, the officers who occupy them will be a new unit called... Comandante (Commander/Major).   Each Comandante will still control one guard station.

The Army Base will be the work-place for the next level in the chain-of-command.   It will be the HQ for Coronels (Colonels)... who can each control one Armory.

Last, a new building called Army HQ will be required.   It is the hang-out for the Generals.   Each General can control one Army Base.

Each related building in the chain-of-command will have a new mission added to the menu.

Armory... Patrol - one-third of all soldatos and officers reporting to this Armory will activily search for Rebels.   Rebels lose a portion of their "invisibility" to Patrolling soldatos from the designated Armory.

Army Base... Search&Destroy - two-third's of all soldatos and officers controlled by this Base will seek out those pesky Rebels.   Invisibility of Rebel would be reduced again.

Army HQ... EradicateRebels - entire Army joins the hunt and Rebels have no invisibility.

[el_malo]

I usually have no problem generating Rebels  

A scenario with a high political & economic settings will generate more than enough badguys.

Also, when doing the initial set-up... you can choose more Rebels as an option.

If more are needed... set one of the Prez attributes as Cheapskate  

The new missions could be tied to existing edicts.  

Armory - Conscription Edict

Army Base - Military Modernization Edict & the above

Army HQ - Martial Law Edict & both of the above

CK, do you think that the Prez Guard and Colonial Fort (when used as a Dungeon) should require an officer?

 

[el_malo]

PT = PopTop

CK, do you think that the Prez Guard and Colonial Fort (when used as a Dungeon) should require an officer?
 
I think it would take a major remake of "buildings" to establish two kinds/types of employees for one building, especially if they have different education levels.*

To require an officer employed elsewhere (such as the Armory \ Guard Tower relationship) would not be appropriate, I think. Personally, I'd rather see a new avatar for the Palace Guard - fancy dress rather than field combat.  For the Dungeon, I'd rather see a toggle between Soldiers and Police.

CK, I meant should the Prez Guard and Col. Fort each have an officer assigned to an Armory.

I also agree with you on a spiffy looking Prez Guard.   Something that makes them stand out.

[el_malo]

No, I don't think an officer from an Armory should be needed to activate the Palace Guard or the Dungeon.

I agree on the Prez Guard... El Supremo commands this force himself.   I do think that if a player picks the Dungeon option... an officer to command the group should be required.

I understand your system, but, I think it would require more development that PT would ever consider doing... if they ever consider an ex-pak.   I'm trying to "build" upon what has gone before and not change much of the existing game.

I have been thinking about Rebels and their "cloak of invisibility."  Based upon my modd suggestions, a mission would only reduce this a small degree for each level..  

The adddition of the long coveted Secret Police (SP)would dove-tail prefectly into this system.  It would mean some type of SP building to base the "snoops" in.

The usual would apply, the more SP's you have and their experience level would further penetrate the Rebel shield.   This could be easily adapted to the existing game without any changes to the military.

I also would like to see PT look at more locations to base soldiers:

Guard Station - remains the same

Checkpoint -  same number of soldiers/they would concentrate on patrolling roads and several tiles on either side

Guard Post - same number of soldiers/must be built next to a Diplomatic Ministry, Immigration Office, Bank, Armory or Mine/will not patrol far for the building it is protecting  

[el_malo]

Most of what I have talked about has to do with what we have learned about what can (may) be done with editing the buildings file. That is, without significant editing/development of other parts of the program.

I know nothing about editing building files or any other files   .   I do know that PT has already done some development work on the Secret Police.   I'm hoping it would not be hard to dust off what they have and finish it.

"Invisible" Rebels: they are not so much invisible as they are out of the "god-like" control of El Presidente.

I seem to remember, about the time of PI's release, the topic of Rebels came up.   I recall something about Rebels being invisible to Police and soldiers.   This was suppose to "simulate" their skulking in the shadows.  

Your statement is the first for me where it is attributed to El Prez's "god-like" control.   I wish someone that was on the inside would clarify this conflict.

(remembering that that number can be adjusted to a much higher base - I like 12)?

Again, this is an area that I know nothing about.  I had assumed it would not be hard to assign different "patrol" patterns to several "bases" for soldiers.

[Coconut Kid]

I do know that PT has already done some development work on the Secret Police.  I'm hoping it would not be hard to dust off what they have and finish it.

There was quite a bit of stuff on the cutting room floor, there's still one web site displaying some of it. I imagine most of it ended on the floor for a reason beyond just a time cut-off. ~~ I thought about your interest in Secret Police. In one sense, the Almanac provides most, if not all, the information that the Secret Police could find. It's sort of an example of the "God Like" abilities of El Presidente. It tells you who belongs to which faction(s), how happy each person is, and how their needs have been met. You can get the information in Almanac displays, map overlays, and individually. To make the Secret Police useful, it seems that all that information would have to be withheld from those "displays" and reformatted to be provided in police reports. It appears to me that would be a major programming project.

Invisible Rebels ~ I suspect that sometimes the Rebels are invisible to the player; but then again they are often visible in what would appear to be unusual situations. Seeing them just "happens" while looking around randomly; trying to find individuals doesn't work. It is not uncommon to see a Police or Soldier avatar walking past a Rebel avatar and taking no action when the Rebel is not attacking a building. So, invisibility is just limiting interaction of the avatars to one specific situation - an attack on a building. Plus, most individual decrees are inoperative on Rebels. The player knows (or may if s/he chooses) a very great deal about all individuals. All individuals are subject to many control measures -- all except the Rebels. So the Rebels have slipped out of the grasp the player has on all of the other citizens.

I had assumed it would not be hard to assign different "patrol" patterns to several "bases" for soldiers.

Without actually knowing specifically, it appears that the patrol "pattern" is embedded in the unit rather than the building where the unit is employed. If so, not only would a different pattern code be needed, but also a different unit base would be needed for each different building -- even if the avatar were the same for all the units.

[Mr.P]

Yup, secret police was my one "hook" when popTop were still creating the game.

If I recall they either posted here or, more likely via one of the group chats we had, that the secret police was dropped just through time contraints and an element of game balance. I'm sure one of them said they had bulked out the edicts to compensate.

For my 10 pence, bulking out the edicts, in addition to the crucial points El has mentions, would be the preferred way to go. A military x-pak labelled as a new Tropico. OK, so it may sucker some into paying top price for a slightly newer version of the original, but I would not complain.

As for the rebel invisibility, yes, this whole area would need to be examined with a new game. Nothing annoys me more than feeling I simply have to wait for the rebels to attack before I can take action. The odd edict that influences rebels is simply not strogn enough for a supposed dictator.

They thing is we can actually "see" the rebels gathering, by a bug that appeared to be left in the game. Whilst it does not work all the time, if you click on the almanac and a rebel, then lock the window on the right upon the rebel, then try to centre it upon the rebel you will often find it zooms to the forest. You'll then likely find the yellow arrow moving around the forest as the rebel walks with his comrades (they usually gather if the scenario's are anything to go by).

A little play with this and a few more tools to toy with the rebels and I can see my gaming experience growing, even in this 'old' game.

[el_malo]

MrP will never be happy... until he can crush rebels beneath the tracks of a tank  

secret police was dropped just through time contraints and an element of game balance

That's what my sources told me.   Supposedly, there is an image of the Secret Policeman completed and ready to go.  By eliminating this character... they released a game that was totally imbalanced and seriously flawed.   It's obvious that the Development boys at PT know very little about Third World "machines of oppression."

This relates to another major beef of mine... the Conscription edict.   I have no problem with the 50% "run away" rating at the start of the 5-year enlistment period.   The rating should be lowered as time passes.    After five years, many of the conscripts should remain as regulars.   That's how it really works... no problem for PT to simulate.

This is the whole point to TRAINING soldiers... to prevent them from running away.  The more intense the training... the more it reduces the run away factor.   Combat with Rebels should speed this process along even faster.

OK, so it may sucker some into paying top price for a slightly newer version of the original, but I would not complain.

Complain... joy would reign in Hitherlands.   As far as the price, my son works for Gamespot  

Tropico is still the only game I play on a continueing basis.

BTW MrP, HOI2 should be out now.   Supposedly the micro-management has been greatly reduced.

[Mr.P]

My apologies CK, you are right, I did not address the key points you make. I shall flagellate 50 peons for 7 whole days, whilst having them utter your name through tears of pain for my error.

To go to the core of what you are looking for...secret police and what they "could, would or should do."

Firstly, and this is by no means limited as I will likely update this post, but as I sit here on a sloooow Friday afternoon I can immediately think of the following.

Could/would/should do:

i) Increase 'government repression' in a limited radius as they walk, yet also increases 'government control' where agents walk. The same applies to a secret police headquarters, but to a larger extent.

ii) A secret police HQ would allow, dependent on how staffed it was with agents, to determine whether protesters are actually named/reported. Rather than actually having to locate them by the flame over the head or reading their thoughts. Perhaps a secret police page in the Almanac would list them, or a pop up appears which you can centre on the protester.

iii) A secret police officer could, dependant upon the number of officers and cover over the map -vs- the size of the army, identify which army members are likely to side with the government or against government. Much better than having to guess from looking at individual soldiers' ratings. Rest assured I have tried and when I test it by running a coup, I rarely get better than a 50% success rate of guessing the loyalists or traitors.

iv) A secret police HQ would identify all new immigrants that have factional leaning that you have flagged. i.e one of the menu's selected from within the building like what radio station, or what immigration policy.

v) As iv, but identify what type of people have emigrated and their factional leanings, dislikes etc so you can learn from your mistakes....kill their relatives...

vi) A secret police would allow you to spy on relatives of rebels to have a certain % chance of knowing where a rebel would attack.

Those are a few and whilst I agree many could simply be added to the almanac without the needs for secret police or a new HQ, given they have already undertaken the work to incorporate him/her in the game any new Tropico should include the above.

[el_malo]

Whew, I'm glad that I can piggy-back off of MrP...  

He covered how SP's can affect suppressing dissentation...  very well.  I concur with the suggestion for a new page that would list protestors by their factions.  

I will throw out my vision of how SP's could "help" the Army with those pesky Rebels.   I will endeavor to keep it simple  

As per the Official Presidente's Guide...

Not visible on map unless attacking or near main city.

After Secret Police Agents observe Rebels a defined number of times... the bad-guys would appear on a new Almanac page.   Once a Rebel has made this new page... two things happen:

1.   Rebel has been identified and is now visible to all soldiers... anywhere on the map.

2.  Identified Rebels are no longer exempt from the Elimanation edict.  

 

[Coconut Kid]

Thank you kindly. Now I have something to get my teeth into. Please note that my reference to the Almanac, etc. had (has) to do with the information already available.

First, although there may have been much work done on a "secret agent man" unit, there may have remained a ton of work on the building and the effects "embeded" in the program.

i) Increase 'government repression' in a limited radius as they walk, yet also increases 'government control' where agents walk. The same applies to a secret police headquarters, but to a larger extent.

Not just to quibble, but those are not on the existing "menu" of effects. What is displayed on the overlays are Military Presence and Police Presence. Those counteract Crime Presence and Rebel Presence. (nb: Rebel Presence is not attached to any building; it's probably just shown around Rebel units.) The first two effects have both positive and negative aspects in the program. There is also Respect Value which is assigned to a handfull of buildings; and possibly units. I'm unaware if units carry that. So, possibly you are suggesting a bucket of new coding; or just some new use of what exists.

ii) A secret police HQ would allow, dependent on how staffed it was with agents, to determine whether protesters are actually named/reported. Rather than actually having to locate them by the flame over the head or reading their thoughts. Perhaps a secret police page in the Almanac would list them, or a pop up appears which you can centre on the protester.

I can see a bit of utility here. I would tend to favor a letter head report because some of them come and go in brief periods. Reference to an Almanac page may slow up the game too much for some players. In any case, the mechanics could be worked out to facilitate quick identification of protesters. Please refresh my memory - the existing Almanac count of Protesters does or does not have a link to individuals? From a game-play standpoint, how much utility does the identity of individual Protesters really have, especially if the individual protests are very brief?

iii) A secret police officer could, dependant upon the number of officers and cover over the map -vs- the size of the army, identify which army members are likely to side with the government or against government. Much better than having to guess from looking at individual soldiers' ratings. Rest assured I have tried and when I test it by running a coup, I rarely get better than a 50% success rate of guessing the loyalists or traitors.

I would count this as a higher bit of utility. Perhaps your success rate has more to do with the method the program uses to designate sides than with the predictors you used. Could it be that the program does NOT tag individual units long before the actual Coup starts? Instead, possibly the program just spins all the military past a random selector when the Coup is tripped to pick a number of them as generated by the trip mechanics. Without knowing the "trip" mechanic, I have to speculate that this could take a bucket of code because the division is not now made before the last nano-second.

iv - I suggest that this is a very marginal activity for "Secret Agent Man." The highly paid Bureaucrats in the Immigration Office should be able to do this. Perhaps it could even be done with a script.

v & vi - I too would love to know more about the emmigrants, but I fear it would take a double bucket of code to create a "save data" file to provide such information. Again, from a game-play standpoint, would actually knowing within a % of accuracy where a Rebel attack would occur make the game more interesting for most players?

I have suggested only that a lot of "spook" type information is already available at three levels in the game. Again, I suspect the amount of work done may be concentrated on the Unit only, and not on the full package required. Thanks for the exchange of ideas.

And now to El Malo's "trailer."  

[Coconut Kid]

... I concur with the suggestion for a new page that would list protestors by their factions.  

I will throw out my vision of how SP's could "help" the Army with those pesky Rebels.  
As per the Official Presidente's Guide...

Not visible on map unless attacking or near main city.

After Secret Police Agents observe Rebels a defined number of times... the bad-guys would appear on a new Almanac page.   Once a Rebel has made this new page... two things happen:

1.   Rebel has been identified and is now visible to all soldiers... anywhere on the map.

2.  Identified Rebels are no longer exempt from the Elimanation edict.

Protesters I wonder if this means, once a protester - always a protester? Just thinking in terms of a simple script, there would need to be a minimum monthly check of all units. Then when identified, the unit would be tagged and listed. Changing the list would be another routine.

Rebel visibility I think with a bucket of code the suggestion is feasible. However, I'm not sure game-play requires such a tilt to the player's side. I suggest a balancing addition - the Rebel knows that his/her cover is gone and proceeds to eliminate any Secret Agent Man who comes within 8 squares.

After all, in a small and close-knit community such as Tropico with about 500 people (at most 1,000), Secret Agent Men are hardly likely to be unknown.

BTW - It seems to me that in some ways the population is symbolic for numbers. For example, a Soldier may be more representative of a squad rather than an individual. The game is, after all, more a fantasy than a simulation like The Sims.

Hey - thanks for helping to keep the game and thoughts about it alive!

 

[Mr.P]

Ahh, good to have a detailed chat about any possible Tropico 3.

First, although there may have been much work done on a "secret agent man" unit, there may have remained a ton of work on the building and the effects "embeded" in the program.

Agreed. Only PT really knows the extent of the secret police development and whether we were told months after it had already been scrubbed, or when they made the decision. If I remember it was in the New Year, before the game was eventually released.

Not just to quibble, but those are not on the existing "menu" of effects. What is displayed on the overlays are Military Presence and Police Presence. Those counteract Crime Presence and Rebel Presence. (nb: Rebel Presence is not attached to any building; it's probably just shown around Rebel units.) The first two effects have both positive and negative aspects in the program. There is also Respect Value which is assigned to a handful of buildings; and possibly units. I'm unaware if units carry that. So, possibly you are suggesting a bucket of new coding; or just some new use of what exists.

Units and building do more than is demonstrated in the almanac or upon overlays.

Firstly a strong military effects government control. (Ref: Manual: P47, Prevention:) "You can see the overall level of government control in the info mode."

In addition (Manual: Page 59: Guard Station: Notes:) Exerts government control.

Thus my reference to government control. Something that is applied to the already existing Soldier unit and the guard station can be allowed for any other unit or building. The code is already present for a + or - effect on government control by a unit or building.

Secondly 'government repression'. I have used the word repression, as this is the negative effect caused by a soldier. Perhaps for clarity I should have said negative effect to liberty, however as liberty and repression are polar opposites I hope you can see what I was referring to.

To clarify (Manual: P23, Liberty:) "A large number of soldiers in an area can reduce liberty."

Thus 'government repression' and 'government control' are present in addition to the points you raised within the overlays.

I can see a bit of utility here. I would tend to favour a letter head report because some of them come and go in brief periods. Reference to an Almanac page may slow up the game too much for some players. In any case, the mechanics could be worked out to facilitate quick identification of protesters.  

Yup, a letter head report would be better in fact than a 'pop up'. The Almanac reference could be a list of protesters. i.e You see the image of the person(s) who protested in the last 12 months, refreshed each Dec 31st.

Click on the person to review their concerns.

Please refresh my memory - the existing Almanac count of Protesters does or does not have a link to individuals?

There appears no link to the actual protesters from the Almanac figure recorded, as far as I can tell.

From a game-play standpoint, how much utility does the identity of individual Protesters really have, especially if the individual protests are very brief?

I personally always desire to know of a protester, no matter how brief. As I have a lot of protesters on my island   , jailing protesters is of importance to me.

Remember a protester influences those around them. (Manual: Page 46: Protest:) "Be careful, the protest disease spreads quickly - Protesters can cause nearby citizens who were only mildly upset to grow angry as well and join the protests. Sometimes this can lead to a full-fledged uprising."

would count this as a higher bit of utility. Perhaps your success rate has more to do with the method the program uses to designate sides than with the predictors you used. Could it be that the program does NOT tag individual units long before the actual Coup starts? Instead, possibly the program just spins all the military past a random selector when the Coup is tripped to pick a number of them as generated by the trip mechanics. Without knowing the "trip" mechanic, I have to speculate that this could take a bucket of code because the division is not now made before the last nano-second.

I can see where you are coming from CK and I do not know the exact mechanisms involved, nor the "trip" that would be involved. I can however make some sound speculation, based upon what the game does.

Firstly, you are given, on almost all occasions, warnings of a potential coup, via letterhead reports.

Clearly to identify the need for a report, or reports, soldiers are assessed. The reports say that some members of the military are <infill what ever the letter head report states the level of concern is> They worsen remember.

A further safe assumption, given there are increasing levels of warnings, is that the concerns of the soldiers are graded on a worsening scale. Something that could be reported by the secret police.


It is of course not clear if the "some soldiers" means the code has taken a sample pick of the soldiers and made an inference or if all soldiers are assessed and an average is given. If the wording of the letter head report is taken literally, it shows that at least some soldiers have reached a certain threshold of unhappiness which is then noted in the form of a report.

Something that could thus be accomplished by a spy. The introduction of a spy would simply add more detailed info than the letter head report provides. After all the code has identified the soldier(s) that are unhappy, so tell me who they are. (Method of reports are many - Overlay, almanac, letter head report)

iv - I suggest that this is a very marginal activity for "Secret Agent Man." The highly paid Bureaucrats in the Immigration Office should be able to do this. Perhaps it could even be done with a script.

Agreed.

The activity, provided by whomever, would be of great use for those who really thrive on micro-management. <Shines medals on breast>

I too would love to know more about the emigrants, but I fear it would take a double bucket of code to create a "save data" file to provide such information.

The information is already there. The code within the game clearly assesses peons and provides a "trip" at which point they head for the Dock. Ever noticed how some who are heading to the dock can then change there mind and ...go sleep....go eat...etc.

From this we can ascertain at least two things.

Firstly the desire to emigrate is not a 'once triggered they are off' scenario. Clearly the desire to emigrate can be influenced.

Secondly the change in the desire to no longer emigrate is either an event triggered by changes in the persons preferences (which as el Presidente I indirectly effect) on

i) a random basis, or more likely,

ii) Resultant from a + effect to the scoring that no longer pushes the person past the "trip" point for emigration.

If the change in desire is random (which seems unlikely, as the reason peons go about their tasks is guided by their needs, happiness etc, and what they do next is not just plucked out of the air) then knowing may prove of little use.

As I say however it is unlikely and the Almanac infers as much. (Manual: Page 20: Overview: Both paragraphs - You can read it though, it is too much to type. )

If the change is resultant from a + effect to the scoring that no longer pushes the person past the "trip" point for emigration, then it is of great use as you can keep, for example, skilled folk on the island by influencing them in a positive way ...(bribe, payrise et al) or by ensuring buildings with skilled workers are a long walk from a dock, thus giving more time to "change their mind" (i.e be re-assessed by the code.)

Again, from a game-play standpoint, would actually knowing within a % of accuracy where a Rebel attack would occur make the game more interesting for most players?

As a militarist and someone who wishes to place my guard stations wisely I would consider it, at the very least, useful for El presidente. Remember, rebels can quickly destroy an outlying farm if no soldiers come quickly. Given the presence of a guard station leads to more soldiers being present in the area, the chances of soldiers getting to the farm before it is destroyed and have a grand ol' shoot-out is greater.

You're right though CK, for some players it would not add much interest.

If El has read this far through my rambling post I would stake 100 posts that he would desire this knowledge though.  

I hope I have demonstrated, at least in part, that the idea's I mentioned are built around already existing data in the game, or around safe assumptions that can be made from how they game interacts with a player.

I know you were just "bouncing idea's" CK. Frankly I love it, as it gives those who toss out suggestions pause for thought as to their merit. My desire to push for secret police comes from being here when they were dropped, whilst we were chatting with PT, before Tropico was released.

I'll leave El to post to his "trailer".....well, no I probably won't as I am a nosy sod who, when it comes to the military in Tropico, cannot hold my tongue. But I'll pause for a break at the very least.

[el_malo]

I will gladly take whatever I can get... a big change or a minor one  

I just want something  

I honestly believe that the game is unbalanced... it limits those that seek a more forceful solution  

Rebels should not be able to walk around with impunity... it just ain't right  

Also, the limits on how much scripters can do with victory scoring is a major part of the problem.

Hey, this is just a random thought for discussion... I have only observed Rebels attacking the following buildings:

1.  Farms
2.  Logging Camps
3.  Mines
4.  Guard Stations
5.  Palace

If anyone has knowledge of of buildings... please shout out.   I assume what buildings Rebels attack is part of the coding  

It seem's that when a Tropicanians dis-satisfaction reaches a certain level/rating (?)... he/she don's a beret and grabs an AK-47  

Why not banks, gov't buildings, factories, etc  

I like the idea of two types of Rebels... right-wingers and left-wingers.  Each would have the ability to attack a few of the same buildings.   Plus, each would have a seperate list that would be different  

Also, since the Power Plant run's on coal or natural gas... where does it come from  

Finish the game... please.

[el_malo]

Actually, resources is one area that can be expanded on very easily... there is plenty of room  

The editor has lots of un-used slots for various natural resources.   Silver, coal, natural gas and oil would be my list of new ones.   The Jewerly Factory could be set on gold or silver.

A Power Plant could run off of either coal,natural gas or oil.  If uranium was added as a mining resource... the Power Plant could have nuke as an option.

Two types of oil-wells... on-shore and off-shore.   The off-shore wells would be similar to a fisherman's wharf... a narrow catwalk and a pipeline to the land.   Wells could be set to produce either natural gas or oil.

------------------------------------------------------------

Some new input...

On scoring, I do not believe that scripters are able to use things like eliminated Rebels or size of military.

Resources...

1.  The Foundry should be completed... I am ready to start shipping steel and aluminum  

A player that was producing his/her own steel and/or aluminum should have building costs reduced.   This could also apply to the timber mill.

2.  A Refinery could process oil into gasoline/petrol... teamsters can push 55 gal drums around  

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Perhaps the most simple and direct (and maybe "cheapest" coding) change would be for the Soldiers (including Generals) and the Rebels to take up "elimination" of each other at the instant they came within five (5) squares of the other. Running away would be only at the appearance of the "Chicken" and there would be no chasing. Otherwise, they would shoot it out until one was dead; but no help would come.

I would be in hog-heaven if PT implemented this in an ex-pac.   It would remove the need for Secret Police.   I would only make one change... the number of squares should be variable.   Training and experience should have a effect on the process.

Edicts (Martial Law and Military Modernization) could also play some role in all of this  

[el_malo]

Hey, this is just a random thought for discussion... I have only observed Rebels attacking the following buildings:

1.  Farms
2.  Logging Camps
3.  Mines
4.  Guard Stations
5.  Palace

You can add the Army Base to the above list  

[el_malo]

The "building" would have three components:
1} The derrick over the resource;
2} A "spline" pipeline on the ground (underwater if off-shore) from the derrick to the nearest point on the shore;
3} A tank with pump station and dock on the shore to off-load the product to tankers. No need for handling drums or other complicated annimation, just staffing with an Engineer or two.

The construction annimation would be simple -- the Laborers would shovel and pound only on the shore component.

I could easily support such a change.   I really do not care how it is done... as long as something is done  

Resources desperately need to be upgraded.  

Since PT showed everyone that they place the dollar (T2) higher than their "moral values" (T1)... I want the marijuana farm.   This could add a new player type... the Druglord.   The smuggling of cannabis would be through the airport.

Druglords would like to live high-on-the-hog and get PO'd if they did not have luxury housing and other goodies.

El Prez could either fight the smugglers with the Police or become a patron of the Druglord and receive pay-offs in return.

[el_malo]

I have been working on a map for the last few days and realized... I would be happy with an x-pac that just finished things that PT had started.

Buildings:

a.  Coral Reef --- not sure how this would be used

b.  Foundry

c.  Gaming Area --- I'm curious as to what type of "gaming" was intended

d.  Large Garden

e.  Offshore Rig --- a top priority IMO

f.   Plaza

g.  Statues --- Financial, National, Religious and Social

h.  Trailhead --- ?

People:

a.  Dispatcher

b.  Secret Police

I would gladly plunk down $20-30 for such an x-pac.

[Mr.P]

Consider my cheque written also El!