Ahh, good to have a detailed chat about any possible Tropico 3.
First, although there may have been much work done on a "secret agent man" unit, there may have remained a ton of work on the building and the effects "embeded" in the program.
Agreed. Only PT really knows the extent of the secret police development and whether we were told months after it had already been scrubbed, or when they made the decision. If I remember it was in the New Year, before the game was eventually released.
Not just to quibble, but those are not on the existing "menu" of effects. What is displayed on the overlays are Military Presence and Police Presence. Those counteract Crime Presence and Rebel Presence. (nb: Rebel Presence is not attached to any building; it's probably just shown around Rebel units.) The first two effects have both positive and negative aspects in the program. There is also Respect Value which is assigned to a handful of buildings; and possibly units. I'm unaware if units carry that. So, possibly you are suggesting a bucket of new coding; or just some new use of what exists.
Units and building do more than is demonstrated in the almanac or upon overlays.
Firstly a strong military effects government control. (Ref: Manual: P47, Prevention:) "You can see the overall level of government control in the info mode."
In addition (Manual: Page 59: Guard Station: Notes:) Exerts government control.
Thus my reference to government control. Something that is applied to the already existing Soldier unit and the guard station can be allowed for any other unit or building. The code is already present for a + or - effect on government control by a unit or building.
Secondly 'government repression'. I have used the word repression, as this is the negative effect caused by a soldier. Perhaps for clarity I should have said negative effect to liberty, however as liberty and repression are polar opposites I hope you can see what I was referring to.
To clarify (Manual: P23, Liberty:) "A large number of soldiers in an area can reduce liberty."
Thus 'government repression' and 'government control' are present in addition to the points you raised within the overlays.
I can see a bit of utility here. I would tend to favour a letter head report because some of them come and go in brief periods. Reference to an Almanac page may slow up the game too much for some players. In any case, the mechanics could be worked out to facilitate quick identification of protesters.
Yup, a letter head report would be better in fact than a 'pop up'. The Almanac reference could be a list of protesters. i.e You see the image of the person(s) who protested in the last 12 months, refreshed each Dec 31st.
Click on the person to review their concerns.
Please refresh my memory - the existing Almanac count of Protesters does or does not have a link to individuals?
There appears no link to the actual protesters from the Almanac figure recorded, as far as I can tell.
From a game-play standpoint, how much utility does the identity of individual Protesters really have, especially if the individual protests are very brief?
I personally always desire to know of a protester, no matter how brief. As I have a lot of protesters on my island
, jailing protesters is of importance to me.
Remember a protester influences those around them. (Manual: Page 46: Protest:) "Be careful, the protest disease spreads quickly - Protesters can cause nearby citizens who were only mildly upset to grow angry as well and join the protests. Sometimes this can lead to a full-fledged uprising."
would count this as a higher bit of utility. Perhaps your success rate has more to do with the method the program uses to designate sides than with the predictors you used. Could it be that the program does NOT tag individual units long before the actual Coup starts? Instead, possibly the program just spins all the military past a random selector when the Coup is tripped to pick a number of them as generated by the trip mechanics. Without knowing the "trip" mechanic, I have to speculate that this could take a bucket of code because the division is not now made before the last nano-second.
I can see where you are coming from CK and I do not know the exact mechanisms involved, nor the "trip" that would be involved. I can however make some sound speculation, based upon what the game does.
Firstly, you are given, on almost all occasions, warnings of a potential coup, via letterhead reports.
Clearly to identify the need for a report, or reports, soldiers are assessed. The reports say that some members of the military are <infill what ever the letter head report states the level of concern is> They worsen remember.
A further safe assumption, given there are increasing levels of warnings, is that the concerns of the soldiers are graded on a worsening scale. Something that could be reported by the secret police.
It is of course not clear if the "some soldiers" means the code has taken a sample pick of the soldiers and made an inference or if all soldiers are assessed and an average is given. If the wording of the letter head report is taken literally, it shows that at least
some soldiers have reached a certain threshold of unhappiness which is then noted in the form of a report.
Something that could thus be accomplished by a spy. The introduction of a spy would simply add more detailed info than the letter head report provides. After all the code has identified the soldier(s) that are unhappy, so tell me who they are. (Method of reports are many - Overlay, almanac, letter head report)
iv - I suggest that this is a very marginal activity for "Secret Agent Man." The highly paid Bureaucrats in the Immigration Office should be able to do this. Perhaps it could even be done with a script.
The activity, provided by whomever, would be of great use for those who really thrive on micro-management. <Shines medals on breast>
I too would love to know more about the emigrants, but I fear it would take a double bucket of code to create a "save data" file to provide such information.
The information is already there. The code within the game clearly assesses peons and provides a "trip" at which point they head for the Dock. Ever noticed how some who are heading to the dock can then change there mind and ...go sleep....go eat...etc.
From this we can ascertain at least two things.
Firstly the desire to emigrate is not a 'once triggered they are off' scenario. Clearly the desire to emigrate can be influenced.
Secondly the change in the desire to no longer emigrate is either an event triggered by changes in the persons preferences (which as el Presidente I indirectly effect) on
i) a random basis, or more likely,
ii) Resultant from a + effect to the scoring that no longer pushes the person past the "trip" point for emigration.
If the change in desire is random (which seems unlikely, as the reason peons go about their tasks is guided by their needs, happiness etc, and what they do next is not just plucked out of the air) then knowing may prove of little use.
As I say however it is unlikely and the Almanac infers as much. (Manual: Page 20: Overview: Both paragraphs - You can read it though, it is too much to type.
If the change is resultant from a + effect to the scoring that no longer pushes the person past the "trip" point for emigration, then it is of great use as you can keep, for example, skilled folk on the island by influencing them in a positive way ...(bribe, payrise et al) or by ensuring buildings with skilled workers are a long walk from a dock, thus giving more time to "change their mind" (i.e be re-assessed by the code.)
Again, from a game-play standpoint, would actually knowing within a % of accuracy where a Rebel attack would occur make the game more interesting for most players?
As a militarist and someone who wishes to place my guard stations wisely I would consider it, at the very least, useful for El presidente. Remember, rebels can quickly destroy an outlying farm if no soldiers come quickly. Given the presence of a guard station leads to more soldiers being present in the area, the chances of soldiers getting to the farm before it is destroyed and have a grand ol' shoot-out is greater.
You're right though CK, for some players it would not add much interest.
If El has read this far through my rambling post I would stake 100 posts that he would desire this knowledge though.
I hope I have demonstrated, at least in part, that the idea's I mentioned are built around already existing data in the game, or around safe assumptions that can be made from how they game interacts with a player.
I know you were just "bouncing idea's" CK. Frankly I love it, as it gives those who toss out suggestions pause for thought as to their merit. My desire to push for secret police comes from being here when they were dropped, whilst we were chatting with PT, before Tropico was released.
I'll leave El to post to his "trailer".....well, no I probably won't as I am a nosy sod who, when it comes to the military in Tropico, cannot hold my tongue. But I'll pause for a break at the very least.