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Privateer0
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« on: 06/06/04 at 07:20 PM »

I thought I was incredibly lucky when I realized my island had rather large gold reserves, some of which were relatively close to the palace. So, I built two mines. I also switched one of my three farms to papaya, one to bananas and one to tobacco. I also built a fishing wharf.

Under this setup, you'd think that the gold would be my primary export. Well, have a look at the picture.

My mining industry employs three times as many people as either banana or tobacco. It's products are about three times as expensive as either of those. So why on blue Earth does it lag behind both of those in exports? Could it just be that the latest gold loads worth about $15,000 are carried by some teamster at this very moment? Or is gold really so inefficient?


* exports.jpg (22.54 KB, 470x194 - viewed 126 times.)
« Last Edit: 06/06/04 at 07:21 PM by Privateer0 » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 06/07/04 at 01:59 AM »

Any jewellery factory?  

Is your banana farm close to the docks so its easy to export the bananas for cash rather than use them as food?
« Last Edit: 07/03/04 at 05:35 PM by Severous » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 06/07/04 at 07:30 AM »

No factories yet and the distance to the docks as about the same as for the gold mines. Some of the bananas were used as food - the farm is my second largest meal provider at 250+ meals served. The first being papaya grove with 300+ meals.
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« Reply #3 on: 06/07/04 at 08:21 AM »

There are alot of variables:

Distance from the farm/mine to the dock.
Distance from the farm/mine to the teamster hall.
Distance from the farm/mine to the workers home.
Distance from the farm/mine to entertainment or services.

Bananas dont take much work once they are growing either.... the farmers just pick them up and take them in. Gold has to be dug up.

There could be gold sitting there at the mine, in transit, or on the dock too.
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« Reply #4 on: 06/07/04 at 09:55 AM »

There are alot of variables:

Distance from the farm/mine to the dock.
Distance from the farm/mine to the teamster hall.
Distance from the farm/mine to the workers home.
Distance from the farm/mine to entertainment or services.

I don't think either of those is a big factor in this case. Have a look: a picture's worth a thousand words.


Quote
There could be gold sitting there at the mine, in transit, or on the dock too.
I think that's it. There's nothing at the mines or the dock, but it's got to be in transit.

Quote
Bananas dont take much work once they are growing either.... the farmers just pick them up and take them in. Gold has to be dug up.

I know, but can it really be that bananas are almost as profitable as gold?! Shocked Shocked Shocked


* of_gold_and_bananas.jpg (399.76 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 112 times.)
« Last Edit: 06/07/04 at 09:57 AM by Privateer0 » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #5 on: 06/07/04 at 10:08 AM »

Yup. Look at how much room those banana farms take up... and then look at that little cramped spot for two goldmines. It doesnt look to me that they have much space to mine in. Also, that particular mine you have selected has never sold any gold. If they ever produced more than the 0.7 sitting at that mine, it must be in transit.
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« Reply #6 on: 06/07/04 at 10:19 AM »

I can't remember the specifics but when I first started using mines I couldn't make a buck from them either, I was building the mine too close to the resource.  After playing through JuntaJoe's Gold Volcano I learnt to back the mine off a bit and started to make a good profit from mining.
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« Reply #7 on: 06/07/04 at 11:23 AM »

That is right. If you put the mine right on top of the lode, they will not be able to mine it.
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« Reply #8 on: 06/07/04 at 12:48 PM »

Aw, nuts. Forgot the mineral view. Here it is. Rest assured, I may not be an expert at Tropico, but I know as much as to not put the mine on top of the deposit. Smiley

Quote
If they ever produced more than the 0.7 sitting at that mine, it must be in transit.


I wonder. That particular mine was built a bit later, but not THAT much later, as to produce only 0.7. It's been there for at least a year if not more. Could it be that they only made 0.7 in that year? Undecided

To figure out once and for all what kind of amounts I had in transit at that point I ran the game for two more years waiting for whatever stuff there was to work its way down the pipe. Here's how my export sheet looked two years later. So, apparently very little gold was in the pipe, while bananas continued their glorious march brining in another 20K.

I should also mention that I had no farming or mining boni in the dictator profile.

Quote
I can't remember the specifics but when I first started using mines I couldn't make a buck from them either, I was building the mine too close to the resource.  After playing through JuntaJoe's Gold Volcano I learnt to back the mine off a bit and started to make a good profit from mining.


Ah. You know, I think that's it. You're right. My mines are too close to the mining area, so when they excavate gold from right near the mine I get a very steep slope instead of a gentle one... It just beats me why they want to excavate the orange-rated squares right next to the mine, if they could walk a few grid squres and get to the green-rated area. Angry

So, between steep grade and mining worthless squares, the mines' output isn't all that spectacular.

Interesting. Now the question is how can I fix it or use it? I suppose I could have built mines a bit farther from the deposits. But how can I stop the miners from digging in the poor areas as they do now?


* golden_eye.jpg (89.94 KB, 512x629 - viewed 90 times.)
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« Reply #9 on: 06/07/04 at 01:25 PM »

Not further, move them Closer! Those mines are waaayyyy too far away from the lodes.  They will only mine a few squares away from building. The left-hand mine is digging up all red, and the other is orange.


* gold-move.jpg (23.17 KB, 253x212 - viewed 64 times.)
« Last Edit: 06/07/04 at 01:59 PM by Brf » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #10 on: 06/07/04 at 01:59 PM »

Ah. But it's only a few squares. Shocked Those lazy miners!

Thanks Brf. Smiley

P.S. I'm still quite impressed with those bananas. I wonder how well it will work to have the entire economy based on bananas. Can you say, banana republic... Cool Of course, the capitalists are probably going to go berserk.
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« Reply #11 on: 06/07/04 at 02:32 PM »

Another factor to consider - where are all the miners in your first picture.  Long way from the mine by the looks of the yellow arrows. .  At least with bananas they can ripen in the sun whilst the farmers are livin it up.  And when the farmers return they have the easiest pickings to gather first.

Any how.... who ever heard of a Gold Republic...Banana Republic has a much better ring to it. Cheesy


This is how I now try to place my mines in Trop2.  Door to the mine facing the best ore deposit. Nice an close - two mines wont dig this lot out quick in Trop2.  Just got to build a bunk and slop tent close to keep the miners close at all time to the mine and these will be fine.


* mines_of_mine.JPG (113.25 KB, 684x485 - viewed 89 times.)
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« Reply #12 on: 12/23/11 at 11:46 AM »

      ... Ah. You know, I think that's it. You're right. My mines are too close to the mining area, so when they excavate gold from right near the mine I get a very steep slope instead of a gentle one. It just beats me why they want to excavate the orange-rated squares right next to the mine, if they could walk a few grid squares and get to the green-rated area.
      So, between steep grade and mining worthless squares, the mines' output isn't all that spectacular.
      Interesting. Now the question is how can I fix it or use it? I suppose I could have built mines a bit farther from the deposits. But how can I stop the miners from digging in the poor areas as they do now?

      Mine Building placement is in no way analogous to placing other buildings - such as farms, ranches and logging camps. Naturally, the Tropican miners do not work under the building because they are working on deposits that begin on the surface for which shafts and tunnels have no use. However, how should the player deal with the surface deposits?
      • To include a single tile of the deposit in the Mine building footprint causes the entire, contiguous deposit to become "owned" by that building -- meaning that no other building of any kind may be constructed with a single tile of the deposit in its footprint.
      So -- even if you desire to sacrifice some or many of those thin, faint tiles to efficiency of travel, etc., you will be frustrated.

      With that ownership feature of the Mine building in mind, I suggest that players absolutely avoid placing a Mine building so that it is on any tile with any level\degree\shade of mineral deposit. If you wish to waste those thin, faint tiles, use them for Bunkhouses and Marketplaces for your Miners.

      What does this mean for the placement of that fascinating "open pit" - the steepness of the sides of which seem so important to the miner's efficiency? I don't know, but I guess a couple of things.
      • The Miners will travel from the building up to 25 tiles maximum to a tile with mineral in it -- the building option sets the kind they look for. They will go to the nearest loaded tile first, but the "pit" animation will center on the richest 'zone' by depth.
      • It will probably always look the same, although there are no reports from situations with overlapping Mines with 25 tile working areas which might make overlapping pits.
      .
      I am probably wrong on that statement of reports as some guest has called to my attention (indirectly) -- check the thread What is the deepest mine ... which still has a picture included at,
      http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tropico/cafe/index.php?topic=10428.0

      I opine that to exploit a large mineral deposit, two or more Mine buildings should be placed at the extreme edges of the deposit about 15 to 20 tiles apart depending on the area and estimated depth. When you start to worry about the depth of the pit(s), start micromanaging the output of the buildings.

      http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tropico/cafe/index.php?topic=154.msg213013#msg213013

      I suppose that the most efficient placement of a mine building would be as close as possible to the deepest (darkest) deposit while still not including any of the shallow deposit.

      Each tile has a depth which I estimate (guess) to be eight defineable levels. This is important only for water (greater depth holds more fish) and mineral ore deposits. When the deposits are initially placed, each click on a tile charges a level and changes the shade of color; each level is of equal richness - so the "richest" part is also the deepest part. When the Miners "work" a tile, they have to remove the ore from the top level first and work sequentially to the bottom level. The animation is only a crude representation of the action with the work actually being denominated by the pick & shovel strokes. Consider the Lumberjack's "whacks" and the construction Laborer's "shovel strokes" and "hammer blows" as similar definitions. Yes, it does take longer to carry the product from the lowest level to the building's output queue. The "pit" does not accurately display the configuration of the deposit.

      When the Miner starts a work shift, he walks out of the building to the nearest tile which has not been completely exhausted of ore. So he walks past those already exhausted shallow deposits at the edge of the field; he is not looking for the tile with the deepest charge of ore. He is looking for the nearest tile with a charge of ore left.

      I suggest that the player should not try to impose a real world image of rich veins of ore on the Tropican game world actuality of uniform blocks of ore stacked 'down'. The Miner produces a constant amount of product for each "pick & shovel blow" no matter the depth. The variation is in the carry to the output queue -- just as it is for the Lumberjack and the Farmer. Personally, I think the shallow parts of the ore field are the easy and quick pickings. The deep parts just keep the mine operating longer, not faster.

      Getting the product to the Port and collecting the income is a whole other study. If player rushes off to a remote gold deposit for quick riches, all sorts of the game mechanics and paradoxes will 'backfire' on him.
      « Last Edit: 12/24/11 at 01:18 PM by Coconut Kid » Report to moderator   Logged

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      « Reply #13 on: 08/28/13 at 10:45 AM »

      From my file of Email copies of posts from the period lost" due to the big hack.

      A reply has been posted to a topic you are watching by Rebel-Yell on 06/03/10.
      The text of the reply is shown below:

      Quote from: Coconut Kid on Today at 09:50 AM
      It has not definitively been established that multiple mines have NO conflict between their work zones (just as it is not clear how overlapping farms work). So while several mines may be built around one ore field, it may be prudent to keep the overlap zone to a minimum.

      Hmm, I never though about possible overlapping issues with mines...I use multiple mines all the time. BTW, a small tip for other "multi-miners": If you plan to max out the number of mines around a field, pause the game and build them altogther - that way you can place them very close. Construct a single mine and try to place the rest then and you will see that the game refuses the close placing.

      Quote
       If the ore field is mixed (contains more than one kind), full exploitation may be a little more complex. Not much has been reported about such cases - nor about the use of the 'All Metals' option. It may be that the 'All Metals' option has advantages in any case.


      I have never seen true "mixed fields". Sometimes two different sources close to each other - and that is the only case were I believe that 'All Metals' is useful...you can place a single mine, eventually give it all upgrades and its miners will work both fields over time. I must admit though that I have never tried that - one reson is my muli-mine startegy described above, the second that I remember very vaguely about having read in some guide that all metals isn't recommended (which might be true or not, given the overall quality of "classic" Tropico guides - reading a day in this forum gives you more insight then all of them together)
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