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Originally posted by Abobo
Ok, first of all...I'm not trying impose my belief over anyone. It is just a thought, an opinion. I have seen first hand how people use religion as a basis for all of their actions. I've lived in the Middle East, I have seen war, I have experianced ignorance, I know what it's like to be ruled by religious zelots. Yes, I do agree that it isn't religion that is bad, but the people who use it's ideas an teachings to further their own means.
Right, not trying to impose, but how about I declare your beliefs to be irrelevant? Just because you had bad experiences with religion in some area, doesn't mean you can pass an absolute/sweeping condemnation to ALL religions everywhere... And there are zealots of all kind, not just 'religious'.
Quote:
Originally posted by Abobo
But, think about it. What has religion taught us? Be good to your fellow man, be honest, don't kill...basically the ten commandments. Look at all the major religions and they basically say the same thing. Now, why can't we just follow all of those things without the all mighty "God" thing? As spacecowboy has said, people use god as a reason to do horrible things.
Because that's a belief of where we came from. You wanna accept evolution, or what not, that's fine; that nothing happens after you die, you just die and it's all a big cosmic joke, that's fine too... But, others believe judgement will come after death based on how we live our lives. You don't want ppl to believe that because you don't? That's an "atheism" thing. It's not like we'll run out of reasons to kill each other any time soon.
So Communists used their beliefs to destroy all who opposed them, what's your point? Shall we destroy all the documents/teachings that helped create such regimes and brainwash people to prevent another violent 'REVOLUTION' (not that it would)?? If you agree that it's extremists who use violence to achieve their goals, than that's the problem that needs to be dealt with. It doesn't mean a person's belief in God should be invalidated. You've selectively targeted that particular belief being an atheist (apparently) and because of a pattern of people hijacking a belief in God to justify horrible actions. So, by that thinking, an atheist doesn't kill as much? Would an atheist not be able to find other means of persuasion to achieve various goals? Like using agit-prop, money, gifts, blackmail, nationalism, racism??
Quote:
Originally posted by Abobo
I believe that religion was formed as a way for early civilzations to gather and form productive societies. Don't get me wrong, I think religion was a fantastic thing for it's time. I think that many of the things that all the major religions teach are still fantastic and can be used today. But the organized religions that exist today are nothing more than a tool for evil men to use to brainwash innocent people, and I am talking about ALL religions. I think the teachings are fantastic, but we should follow those teachings for the sake of humanity, not so we can goto heaven and meet "God" or "Jesus" or "Allah" or whatever. There should be no reason why we have to seperate ourselves from each other, it's all of this "us" vs "them" mentality that has gotten us here in the first place. That kind of religion has no place in this world anymore, back during the time of Jesus, Moses, & Mohammad the world was a much bigger place. The earth is MUCH smaller now.
Uh, again, I dunno how you claim to speak for all organized religions. You're tossing these sweeping generalizations based on your own experiences. I know you were talking about ALL religions, I just used a few examples that I knew of. That's why it's more offensive. So, ALL religions are run by evil men that are brainwashing the innocent?? Can you really prove that? Aside from anecdotal crap, that argument isn't gonna hold much water. "Oh, there are evil ppl everywhere". Yeah, we're human. There are evil ppl in government, in corporations, in society, in the world... Uh yeah, that's a fair statement, but to say they're concentrated in a certain area without tangible evidence is a bit different.
Let's see, the earth is MUCH smaller now, so that means your beliefs are superior now, and Jesus, Moses, & Mohammad are obselete. Once again, you believe you know what's best for the world. Maybe your intolerance of such religions has no place in the world, not the other way around.
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Originally posted by Abobo
As far as the whole humanism thing goes, hell...I didn't even know that something like that actually existed!! I just made that up on the fly...well..I guess I'm not the only one. Anyway call it whatever you want...who cares what it's called. People should be free to think and believe in whatever they want, as long as they respect eachother and each others beliefs, and in the end...today's religions might say that....but people don't practice that. It's still "us" vs. "them"
Everyone, to some extent, says they respect each others beliefs, but doesn't really mean it, not just 'religions' (there's socialists, liberals, communists, atheists, etc.). You're doing it right now and so am I. If respecting someone's beliefs means shutting down the debate, and basically saying you can't promote your beliefs, well, then we have a problem.. You're gonna continue thinking the way you do, I'll do the same. You'll promote your beliefs, I'll promote mine, and by your own admission, it will continue to be "us" vs. "them". Unless of course one side submits, or rather, gives up their beliefs to the other side. It seems a way of saying you can freely proselytize your views, but religious persons can't cause of a tagging of intolerance. I wouldn't say that's fair or tolerant. So, don't blame ppl with religious beliefs for doing the same thing.
